Titanium C138 and C1PLL spectrum graphs and 5G

N6BY

N6BY

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Last week, for the first time in several months, I decided to see what was available to watch on C Band. It didn't take long to find something to watch, but there were frequent audio dropouts, picture freezes, and pixelization. I checked other transponders on other satellites. About 1/2 of them had problems! So I switched dishes, receivers, and LNBFs - same problem.

Since the problem was not unique to any particular part of my receiving system, I hooked up my dish to my TBS6983 and did a spectrum scan. It showed intermittent signal spikes below 3800 MHz. I didn't think 5G was in my neighborhood yet, so I went to Verizon's web site to check:

VerizonInternetAvailable


That confirmed it. My area now has 5G "sharing" some of the frequency space with C Band. The 5G devices are apparently causing problems, even leaking noise into higher frequencies above 3800 MHZ.

So I did a Google search and found some expensive 5G filters. Fortunately I later discovered the Titanium C138 C Band LNBF. It was Friday and Amazon could deliver it on Labor Day, so I ordered one. (If I ordered direct from Titanium, the US Mail would not deliver on Labor Day.)

I got it around 5 PM today. The box said "5G Red 1". 5G red filters are bandpass for 3.8-4.2 GHz. 5G blue filters are for 4.0-4-2 GHz. When 5G expands their use of C Band above 3800 MHz, some of us might need the blue filter.

Before I removed my existing Titanium C1PLL LNBF, I did a spectrum scan from 3.4-4.2 GHz:
C1PLLGraph


Then I installed the C138 and did another scan:
C138Graph


The signal spikes below 3800 MHz (presumably 5G) are about 10 dB lower with the C138 compared to the C1PLL. Also with the C138 the noise floor is about 15-20 dB lower on the left side of the graph.

After those graphs came the real test - hooking it up to my OS Mio+ 4K. The same channels that were not watchable were completely free from glitches with the C138. It was great having C Band back again!

Thank you Brian for creating and selling another great product.

Update 12/8/2022: 5G has gotten stronger here in my neighborhood and the C138 no longer seems to be winning the battle. See post #18.
 
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c-spand

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Last week, for the first time in several months, I decided to see what was available to watch on C Band. It didn't take long to find something to watch, but there were frequent audio dropouts, picture freezes, and pixelization. I checked other transponders on other satellites. About 1/2 of them had problems! So I switched dishes, receivers, and LNBFs - same problem.

Since the problem was not unique to any particular part of my receiving system, I hooked up my dish to my TBS6983 and did a spectrum scan. It showed intermittent signal spikes below 3800 MHz. I didn't think 5G was in my neighborhood yet, so I went to Verizon's web site to check:

View attachment 158322

That confirmed it. My area now has 5G "sharing" some of the frequency space with C Band. The 5G devices are apparently causing problems, even leaking noise into higher frequencies above 3800 MHZ.

So I did a Google search and found some expensive 5G filters. Fortunately I later discovered the Titanium C138 C Band LNBF. It was Friday and Amazon could deliver it on Labor Day, so I ordered one. (If I ordered direct from Titanium, the US Mail would not deliver on Labor Day.)

I got it around 5 PM today. The box said "5G Red 1". 5G red filters are bandpass for 3.8-4.2 GHz. 5G blue filters are for 4.0-4-2 GHz. When 5G expands their use of C Band above 3800 MHz, some of us might need the blue filter.

Before I removed my existing Titanium C1PLL LNBF, I did a spectrum scan from 3.4-4.2 GHz:
View attachment 158323

Then I installed the C138 and did another scan:
View attachment 158324

The signal spikes below 3800 MHz (presumably 5G) are about 10 dB lower with the C138 compared to the C1PLL. Also with the C138 the noise floor is about 15-20 dB lower on the left side of the graph.

After those graphs came the real test - hooking it up to my OS Mio+ 4K. The same channels that were not watchable were completely free from glitches with the C138. It was great having C Band back again!

Thank you Brian for creating and selling another great product. :hatsoff
Thank you for sharing that.
 
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detroittech

Active SatelliteGuys Member
Feb 22, 2006
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Struggling with this right now with my 5 Meter. I have the phase 2 filters in place but I'm still getting bad, intermittent interference.
 
L

LEEHRAT

Well-Known SatelliteGuys Member
Dec 13, 2004
29
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Will the new LNB receive signals below 3800 as some sats in mexico still use them. Just wanted to know before I order one.
 
N6BY

N6BY

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Will the new LNB receive signals below 3800 as some sats in mexico still use them. Just wanted to know before I order one.
No, and if it did it would let 5G through.

UPDATE: There might be a solution to receive 3700-3800 with 5G present. I am in the process of building and testing a shield that goes around the rim of the dish. The idea is that it will block 5G but still allow satellite reception. There is a thread about it here: 5G Network interference:
 
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detroittech

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Feb 22, 2006
16
2
Sorry N6BY, by phase 2 I meant the blue ( Passband 4.0 to 4.2 GHz). I'm not looking at anything under 4 GHz so we just used those instead of the red.

update to my story, we found that by installing all 10 bolts between the LNB and the filter, and tightening them in the order/to the torque the manufacturer recommended, the problem was fixed immediately. The difference on the analyzer was like night and day, no interference visible at all after we did that.
 
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N6BY

N6BY

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Sorry N6BY, by phase 2 I meant the blue ( Passband 4.0 to 4.2 GHz). I'm not looking at anything under 4 GHz so we just used those instead of the red.

update to my story, we found that by installing all 10 bolts between the LNB and the filter, and tightening them in the order/to the torque the manufacturer recommended, the problem was fixed immediately. The difference on the analyzer was like night and day, no interference visible at all after we did that.
Sounds like 5G finds a way to get into even the smallest gaps.

I tried putting a wire mesh skirt around my 10' Unimesh dish and it didn't work. It had 3 problems: It shadowed a significant portion of the Dish, 5G still got through even with 1/16" mesh, and it was extremely ugly.

So I took it off and put the Titanium C138 back on.
 
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armadillo_115

armadillo_115

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Thanks for taking the time to do the testing, N6BY.
 
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N6BY

N6BY

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An update....

I asked my neighbor on the side of my house closest to my Unimesh dish if he has a 5G phone. He does, and says he gets a good 5G signal here.

Now, even with the C138, sometimes I am seeing pixelation and breakups on some of the channels. :(
 
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N6BY

N6BY

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What band(s) is you neighbors iPhone using for 5G? What provider?
He didn't say which provider or band it uses. He just said "I have an iPhone with 5G coverage". He works in the Bay Area during most of the week and comes home on the weekends.

Reception is perfect now. Will see if it starts pixelating on the weekend.

NASA never glitches with the C138, and that is the only channel I really care about.

The problem is not the C138, it is out of band emissions that cause problems.
 
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Titanium

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If he is a cool neighbor, maybe he would install a cell signal app from the app store and share what frequency and tower it is operating on when you experience interference.
 
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N6BY

N6BY

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If he is a cool neighbor, maybe he would install a cell signal app from the app store and share what frequency and tower it is operating on when you experience interference.
Great idea. I didn't know that there was an app for that.

But unfortunately he is not friendly with me ever since I complained about his barking dog. I was kind of pushing it when I asked him if he had a 5G phone. I didn't say it might be interfering with my satellite reception. I acted like I was wondering if we get good 5G service here.

I could, however, check with my neighbor on the other side to see if he has a 5G phone. His mother-in-law and my mom are living at the same care home for the elderly/alzheimers.
 
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primestar31

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Great idea. I didn't know that there was an app for that.

But unfortunately he is not friendly with me ever since I complained about his barking dog. I was kind of pushing it when I asked him if he had a 5G phone. I didn't say it might be interfering with my satellite reception. I acted like I was wondering if we get good 5G service here.

I could, however, check with my neighbor on the other side to see if he has a 5G phone. His mother-in-law and my mom are living at the same care home for the elderly/alzheimers.
Did he do anything to stop the dog from barking so much? If so, then go over and thank him for that, then segue into asking about loading the app and letting you know where the tower is.
 
N6BY

N6BY

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Did he do anything to stop the dog from barking so much? If so, then go over and thank him for that, then segue into asking about loading the app and letting you know where the tower is.
No.

I made another signal graph last night with EBS Pro. I set it to scan continuously and watched signal spikes in the 3700 to 3800 MHz range come and go. So I am positive that there is strong 5G here. The scan below is with the C138 LNBF. Even with the 5G spikes I was not seeing pixelation like I did on Sunday.

So maybe it was a problem with the uplink? Will check it again over the weekend.

127W Horizontal
 
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N6BY

N6BY

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An update....

I asked my neighbor on the side of my house closest to my Unimesh dish if he has a 5G phone. He does, and says he gets a good 5G signal here.

Now, even with the C138, sometimes I am seeing pixelation and breakups on some of the channels. :(
Last night I tried my other C Band dish on the opposite side of my house and farthest away from my neighbor. It did not help my reception problems. My house completely blocks my neighbor with a 5G iPhone and there is still pixelation and missing transponders when I blind scan 127W.

Reception has been gradually getting worse during the 3 months that I have used a Titanium C138. When I blind scan 127W (the one with NASA TV) I get somewhere between 3 and 15 transponders (it varies almost every time I try). On some of the channels that do scan in, there is heavy pixelation now.

I have even tried another receiver, with similar results.

My conclusion is that the C138 LNBF is OK if you have light 5G interference (like it was when I first received it in September). But now I think 5G has won and it seems to overpower my C138.
 
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primestar31

primestar31

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Last night I tried my other C Band dish on the opposite side of my house and farthest away from my neighbor. It did not help my reception problems. My house completely blocks my neighbor with a 5G iPhone and there is still pixelation and missing transponders when I blind scan 127W.

Reception has been gradually getting worse during the 3 months that I have used a Titanium C138. When I blind scan 127W (the one with NASA TV) I get somewhere between 3 and 15 transponders (it varies almost every time I try). On some of the channels that do scan in, there is heavy pixelation now.

I have even tried another receiver, with similar results.

My conclusion is that the C138 LNBF is OK if you have light 5G interference (like it was when I first received it in September). But now I think 5G has won and it seems to overpower my C138.
Do you KNOW it's just 5g interference? I mean, without a spectrum analyzer, you don't really know that for an absolute fact. Perhaps taking your receiver right out to the dish, and connecting with a brand new coax might tell you more. And/or also try another receiver
 
N6BY

N6BY

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Do you KNOW it's just 5g interference? I mean, without a spectrum analyzer, you don't really know that for an absolute fact. Perhaps taking your receiver right out to the dish, and connecting with a brand new coax might tell you more. And/or also try another receiver
Yes. The signal graphs are about as close as I can get to a spectrum analyzer in post #1 and post #17. They show narrow spikes below 3800 MHz. When I put EBS Pro into continuous scan mode I could see that the spikes randomly appeared and disappeared. So they are not from an FTA satellite (those are somewhat constant). And its not radar because the frequency of the spikes vary. (Which is because 5G has many channels).

Also, the interference has been gradually getting worse in the 3 months I have had the C138. And I got a postcard in the mail from Verizon advertising that 5G internet is now available in my area.

Its not just 5G from cell towers in my area. When someone in my neighborhood installs 5G internet they become a new source of interference.

Earlier in this thread, Titanium suggested that I get my neighbor to install an app to identify the tower. But that would not tell me which houses have 5G home internet. Even if I knew there is nothing I could do about it.

Finally, please take another look at those spectrum graphs. It looks to me like the C138 is not doing very much to attenuate signals in the 3700-3800 range. That's my opinion, others may disagree. Maybe it needs a stronger filter?
 

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