TiVo and DISH / Echostar head back to Texas for another patent duel

[IcEWoLF]

Discuss..
I've just saw this @ endgaget today: TiVo and DISH / Echostar head back to Texas for another patent duel - Engadget

Looks like this will never end...it will be bad if dish loses again, it will just hurt customers.

 

[MikeD-C05]

Charlie needs to just buy TIVO and quit fu@*ing around already. He has tried to take over Directv, Xm, Ion tv channel and GOD knows what else , but for some damn reason he keeps this litigation going with TIVO . If he would go ahead and buy the damn company he could use their software to improve our dvrs and make the DISH brand the best dvr on the market hands down. In the end he will have to license the TIVO software or there will be no more DISH to worry about. I don't see the court ruling for DISH at all. Charlie has a way of pissing off EVERYBODY. Just hurry up and end this misery for all of us.

 

[Thomas22]

Charlie needs to just buy TIVO

TiVo would instantly lose DirecTV, Comcast, etc. as customers. Also, TiVo has a poison pill.

 

[MikeD-C05]

TiVo would instantly lose DirecTV, Comcast, etc. as customers. Also, TiVo has a poison pill.

Really? WHat is the poison pill option?

 

[Hall]

Really? WHat is the poison pill option?

It's a "protection" feature TiVo's board put in place many years ago when they were a "hot" commodity or were considered valuable. I believe that today, given TiVo's current value, that their board would "take the money and run".

 

[Hall]

TiVo would instantly lose DirecTV, Comcast, etc. as customers.

Why ? Is this in the contracts between the companies ? I didn't know these contracts were publicly available...

 

[cjwct]

Is it wise for Charlie anymore to buy Tivo? With the Sling 922, why would he need Tivo?

 

[MikeD-C05]

Is it wise for Charlie anymore to buy Tivo? With the Sling 922, why would he need Tivo?

To make the ongoing Tivo vs DISH lawsuit go away. Especially if the Judge who is hearing the latest appeal or case decides to turn off all DVRs that DISH has because there is little difference between the older ones like the 942/522/625 and the newest ones 612/622/722 models. And there is the money aspect involved in fines that DISH would have to pay as well. It makes more sense to just buy them and then TIVO becomes Echostar property , software and all. No more legal case.

 

[eddie willers]

Buy em.
Pink slip em.
Liquidate em.

Buh by.

 

[Thomas22]

Why ? Is this in the contracts between the companies ? I didn't know these contracts were publicly available...

Yes, a backout clause is in the contracts. Slightly redacted copies of the contracts were filed with the SEC and are avasilable online.

 

[Thomas22]

Interesting excerpts from hearing minutes:

"2 DAY OF HEARING, WEDNESDAY, 2/18/09
8:41 ICC with Chu and McElinny; ct/ both CEO’s in the courthouse, would it be helpful to chat with them; McElhinny/ agrees; Chu/ responds, CEO not here; ct/ if Mr. Barton can deliver msg well and fine; how can Judge Faulknor be of help; McElhinny/ 2 general counsel are here; Chu/ this is great; ct/ can meet at end of the day; discuss with them and if they feel it won’t be of help that is fine; 8:48 recess "

Later:

"4:49 Chu/ responds;
4:49 ct/ let’s take up some cross;
4:50 Chu/ cross of Thomas Rhyne;
5:00 McElhinny/ do you anticipate closing arguments tomorrow;
5:00 ct/ no;
5:00 recess;
5:06 ICC w/ Chu and McElhinny; ct/ do we have any realistic expectation of this being helpful; McElhinny/ responds; ct/ don’t mind taking a few minutes initially, want you two present; 2 general counsel and mr. Barton and Mr. Ergen; McElhinny/ would also like to include John Pickett; Chu/ responds; 5:10 recess; 5;15 ICC w/ Chu, Jim Barton (rep), Matt Zinn (gen. counsel), Stanton Dodge (gen. counsel), McElhinny, Pickett, Charles Ergen (rep); ct/ address’ pty; anything I can do to help the process, if anypossible way to bridge whatever bridge there is; Chu/ Judge Faulknor has been working very hard; Pickett/ we have talked and continue to have discussions; ct/ any suggestions on how we might go forward to resolve this; Zinn/ last discussion; ct/ should make serious efforts to resolve this before I enter a ruling; encouraging you to do so; Zinn/ would like to have a deal done; ct/ you should be meeting with Mr. Rogers; Ergen/ maybe; ct/ I think everybody has my message; 5:26 recess; "

 

[MikeD-C05]

CHARLIE SETTLE ALREADY! The judge is giving you a big hint when he says: should make serious efforts to resolve this before I enter a ruling; encouraging you to do so. I sure hope that Charlie's stubborness won't be DISH's undoing.

 

[jacmyoung]

CHARLIE SETTLE ALREADY! The judge is giving you a big hint when he says: should make serious efforts to resolve this before I enter a ruling; encouraging you to do so. I sure hope that Charlie's stubborness won't be DISH's undoing.

Can't take anything from the hearing minute until you read the full version. We do not know what was that comment about, it could very well be that the judge told both of them to resolve some minor legal issue before he produced a ruling.

Remember what the judge was also reported as saying, he would not produce a ruling on the infringement issue any time soon, and may even arrange another hearing in the future to further evaluate the issue. Which means he did not see compelling reason to cite E* in contempt, otherwise the judges usually do not drag things on and on, because it certainly is a dis-service to the plaintiff and our legal authority if the defendant is indeed in contempt. How long since TiVo asked the judge for a contempt charge? About 10 months and counting?

Of course the judge wants them to settle before he is forced to do any more work for them, gets in the way of his fishing trips not to mention whatever his ruling will likely be appealed and his boss may overturn his ruling which may not make him look good.

 

[Thomas22]

"Hon. Robert Faulkner (Ret.) , retired Magistrate Judge for the Eastern District of Texas, brings to JAMS over 35 years of distinguished service from the federal judiciary and private law practice. Judge Faulkner’s reputation and ADR success have catapulted him into a national ADR practice. In additional to his very active practice in Dallas, he settled multiple patent cases involving large international companies in the Detroit area, as well as a copyright case in Los Angeles. The Judge has been successful in conducting cases in Chicago, Houston, Little Rock, and Silicon Valley. He has also worked with the parties to bring settlements in large oil and gas cases. Judge Faulkner has settled several major personal injury cases involving the death of the victim(s) with total recoveries of over $20,000,000, and major personal injury cases in Dallas. Several clients have pointed out that the Judge never gives up on a case until it has settled.

ADR Experience and Qualifications

• Judge Faulkner has conducted over 500 trials, settlement conferences, and hearings on a wide range of issues including business and commercial litigation, ADA matters, healthcare, intellectual property, employment, personal injury, and product liability. Judge Faulkner's ability to create an environment that helps parties make reasonable decisions about their cases makes him a sought after mediator."

 

[cjwct]

easy come, easy go? charlie makes all that money from liberty in regards to siriusxm and loses it with tivo settlement . . . LOL

 

[MikeD-C05]

"Hon. Robert Faulkner (Ret.) , retired Magistrate Judge for the Eastern District of Texas, brings to JAMS over 35 years of distinguished service from the federal judiciary and private law practice. Judge Faulkner’s reputation and ADR success have catapulted him into a national ADR practice. In additional to his very active practice in Dallas, he settled multiple patent cases involving large international companies in the Detroit area, as well as a copyright case in Los Angeles. The Judge has been successful in conducting cases in Chicago, Houston, Little Rock, and Silicon Valley. He has also worked with the parties to bring settlements in large oil and gas cases. Judge Faulkner has settled several major personal injury cases involving the death of the victim(s) with total recoveries of over $20,000,000, and major personal injury cases in Dallas. Several clients have pointed out that the Judge never gives up on a case until it has settled.

ADR Experience and Qualifications

• Judge Faulkner has conducted over 500 trials, settlement conferences, and hearings on a wide range of issues including business and commercial litigation, ADA matters, healthcare, intellectual property, employment, personal injury, and product liability. Judge Faulkner's ability to create an environment that helps parties make reasonable decisions about their cases makes him a sought after mediator."

But this is Charlie Ergen who never settles sh*t. He wants it his way or no way. I can see him fighting to the bitter end. Anyone remember the national distants lawsuit and how that one went on for years and then Charlie still mangaged to get it his way in the end. Even though he lost the right to carry distant networks , he still is carrying them by leasing to AAD and selling the a transponder on his 119 sat and only DISH subs or those with Echostar receivers can see them.

 

[Thomas22]

But this is Charlie Ergen who never settles sh*t. He wants it his way or no way.

I don't think TiVo wants to settle prior to a ruling. The TiVo CEO wasn't even there to participate in talks even though he knew Ergen would be there.

 

[jacmyoung]

I don't think TiVo wants to settle prior to a ruling. The TiVo CEO wasn't even there to participate in talks even though he knew Ergen would be there.

Charlie never wanted to settle, he was there to tell the judge E* was no longer in violation. Therefore there was no point for TiVo's Rogers to be there to discuss any settlement with Charlie.

As far as a settlement, it depends on what kind of settlement. A settlement where TiVo agrees to refund part or all of the $104M to Charlie in exchange for a license agreement is also a settlement, I know it sounds ridiculous, my point is don't believe just because there might be a settlement in the end it will automatically be TiVo's win. If E* is not in contempt, TiVo might want to contemplate the above scenario for sake of its own survival.

Keep in mind that E* had already successfully convinced the USPTO to reexamine TiVo's own patent, due to new evidence pointing out that the patent may be invalid, by combining two prior published patents, something the USPTO failed to do their job last time. The USPTO's decision is due out in a few months, and statistics in the past show that there was a 59% chance a patent was invalidated during reexamination.

What would that mean? Injustice would have been served in the past, TiVo should never have had the patent in the first place.

 

[CuriousMark]

I don't think TiVo wants to settle prior to a ruling. The TiVo CEO wasn't even there to participate in talks even though he knew Ergen would be there.

IN the court reporter's notes linked above The TiVo lawyer is shown to respond that TiVo would like to do a deal. When Charlie is pressed by the judge on the subject he says "maybe". That may not be the only way to interpret those cryptic lines, so I ask you to go read the link yourself and then tell me if you still think it is TiVo trying to prevent a settlement.

 

[riffjim4069]

Buy em.
Pink slip em.
Liquidate em.

Buh by.

What if EchoStar were to buy Tivo? Don't you think E's lawyers would go after others for using their Intellectual Property (aka patents)? Also, why dismantle Tivo when they have a few million paying customers and support and distribution channels for E* to potentially schlock their DTVPal, DTVPal DVR, and cable and consumer-direct versions of their upcoming 922. Even if E* were to buy Tivo, Mr. Ergen has a responsiblity to shareholders to maximize the profitablity of the company's investments...not just flush 'em down the toilet because of a personal vendetta. Moreover, while I may not approve of many of Charlie's tactics (ethical problems)...he has always been a schrewd businessman with an eye on the bottom line.

I don't see this happening.