Using a WSI DMX242 with 22KHz problem

[McGuyver]

I have attached a sketch of the layout for better understanding, if you see something wrong with the configuration please alert me.

I need help making a determination on this newly purchased WSI DMX242.
When using the WSI DMX242 dual output C-LNB with any 22KHz switch, either 'Ecoda', 'no name' brand and 'Chieta', the "on/22KHz" port is dead. No signal of either SS or QS is registered on the receiver signal meter for the "on/22KHz" port, I tested with 3 different receivers with the same results. Even if I eliminate the other brand LNB, the "on/22KHz" port of the 22KHz switch is still dead.

If I connect only the DMX242 to the "off" port and eliminate the other LNB, signals will pass through the "off" port but whenever both LNB's are connected, the "on/22KHz" port is dead. If I remove the DMX242 from the circuit, everything works well even with 2 LNB's of the other brand, this indicates the switches are working.

Does this mean that the DMX242 is defective or is it characteristic of this dual output type LNB not to work with 22KHz switches?

Thanks Guys

 

[Anole]

seriously:

Since you did mention this matter in another thread, I won't assume it's just another April Fool's joke. -

The only things that comes to mind are:

- the LNBf draws so little power, the switch won't work
Is this even possible? Don't know; it's a theory. -
Try a load resistor on the switch inputs? (absurd, I know)

- the LNBf needs to be powered on both ports to operate properly?
Have you swapped cables between the 22khz switch and the LNBf?
Could you try power inserters or a multiswitch ?

- well, does the 22khz switch power-up and power-down its input LNBf?
Maybe all you are seeing is warm-up drift of the LNBf upon getting power to the "22khz On" side?

Edit:
- oh! Power one side of the LNBf with another receiver.
Then, hook the 22khz On side of a switch to the other output of the LNBf.
Now, select the 2nd side by turning ON the 22khz!
Swap your cables to the LNBf and repeat the test, to be thorough.

 

[Ironsides]

Not the same thing I know

I know this isn't even close to the problems you have McGuyver but with my experience with the DMX 741 I had troubles using the 22 hz tone with the ku band. I also had troubles using several diseqc swithes. I just used the 2nd coax on my feed line to connect to the KU lnbf that did away with the 22 hz problem. My next worry was the switch and at First I thought it was the receiver. I figured out pretty quick it was a switch problem and worked that out by using a Chieta about 3 feet from the receiver. My switch box was outside and about 25 to 35 feet from the receiver but for some reasons unknown to me I just could not get it to work out there. I just totally bypassed that box and use the Chieta on a 3 foot jumper right at the receiver and so far it was worked excellent. I think my problem with the 22 hz was the feedline length but I have no idea as I really didn't waste a lot of time checking into that.

Actually you gave me that idea on something we had discussed concerning a different matter. LOL!

 

[Mr Tony]

The LNB should work with a 22k switch. I know right now I have a dual LNB (Geosat C-Band) on 121W and a KU for 125W connected with a 22k switch. That runs to port 4 of my diseqc switch and it works just fine

Have you tried swapping the new LNB to the 0k side and the other LNB to the 22k side?

 

[McGuyver]

Since you did mention this matter in another thread, I won't assume it's just another April Fool's joke. -

The only things that comes to mind are:

- the LNBf draws so little power, the switch won't work
Is this even possible? Don't know; it's a theory. -
Try a load resistor on the switch inputs? (absurd, I know)

- the LNBf needs to be powered on both ports to operate properly?
Have you swapped cables between the 22khz switch and the LNBf?
Could you try power inserters or a multiswitch ?

- well, does the 22khz switch power-up and power-down its input LNBf?
Maybe all you are seeing is warm-up drift of the LNBf upon getting power to the "22khz On" side?

Edit:
- oh! Power one side of the LNBf with another receiver.
Then, hook the 22khz On side of a switch to the other output of the LNBf.
Now, select the 2nd side by turning ON the 22khz!
Swap your cables to the LNBf and repeat the test, to be thorough.

Good questions and points to consider but I haven't a clue as to how to induce a load resistance on the switch. I'm still learning and this is something new to me. Never had this problem, read my other replies below.

I know this isn't even close to the problems you have McGuyver but with my experience with the DMX 741 I had troubles using the 22 hz tone with the ku band. I also had troubles using several diseqc swithes. I just used the 2nd coax on my feed line to connect to the KU lnbf that did away with the 22 hz problem. My next worry was the switch and at First I thought it was the receiver. I figured out pretty quick it was a switch problem and worked that out by using a Chieta about 3 feet from the receiver. My switch box was outside and about 25 to 35 feet from the receiver but for some reasons unknown to me I just could not get it to work out there. I just totally bypassed that box and use the Chieta on a 3 foot jumper right at the receiver and so far it was worked excellent. I think my problem with the 22 hz was the feedline length but I have no idea as I really didn't waste a lot of time checking into that.

Actually you gave me that idea on something we had discussed concerning a different matter. LOL!

The coax cables are only about 50 ft long and new to boot. I checked everything possible, tried all the switches I had (about 10) and even tested it at the dish with my field TV + Rec. and this is where I had noticed the trouble. A 10 ft length of coax didn't matter so it's not any cabling issue that I know.

The LNB should work with a 22k switch. I know right now I have a dual LNB (Geosat C-Band) on 121W and a KU for 125W connected with a 22k switch. That runs to port 4 of my diseqc switch and it works just fine

Have you tried swapping the new LNB to the 0k side and the other LNB to the 22k side?

Yes, I swapped the ports, I spent hours troubleshooting and any way I tried, it always had the same results. Once I eliminate the DMX242, everything works perfectly. I finally had to call it a day, (getting dark), and I ran a new/separate line back to the house where the EMP Centauri 4X1 switch is and just connected through there. It works great with Diseqc's but not 22KHz's

I emailed WSI tech support, they replied yesterday and asked a few simple questions, I again explained in other ways and they haven't yet replied. I'm not sure that I'll get an answer from them...

 

[McGuyver]

One more thing to mention if I haven't already, this concerns Anole's first question also.

With the ER-861 connected to the "on" port of the 22KHz switch and NOTHING connected to the "off" port, the switch works allowing the signal to pass through from the ER-861...

Once I connect the DMX242 to the "off" port, the switch stops working. NO signals whatsoever pass through either port and I lose the signal from the ER-861. Now, if I disconnect the ER-861 from the "on" port, the signal from the DMX242 will pass through the "off" port only, go figure! Therefore, I can't imagine that it's due to the lack of the LNB drawing power, it rather acts as a short to the switch. I'm going out there to do more testing, get back to you guys later...

 

[Lak7]

Possible that the DMX242 is passing the 22KHz signal from 1 LNB to the other?

 

[McGuyver]

Ok, here's the report... I just tried another brand new DMX242 (I bought 2) and I have the same results but this time I think it burned out my new Chieta 22KHz besides because now I can't even get the other LNB to work on the 22KHz by itself. I can ONLY get signal through the "off" port with either LNB.

I also noticed that when the DMX242 is connected to the system with the 22KHz switch, I also lose my Ku band dish through the Diseqc switch, the Diseqc even gets shorted out, everything stops working. Where is WSI when you need them? HELLOoooooo!!!!!!!!

I wonder if they actually field tested these LNB's with 22KHz switches???
I'm getting MAD now!

 

[McGuyver]

Possible that the DMX242 is passing the 22KHz signal from 1 LNB to the other?

How would that be possible? And if so, it shouldn't... if fact, I shouldn't be having ANY problem with these WSI LNB's, they should work like all other brands do with 22KHz switches. There is no mention by WSI that these will not work with 22KHz switches. They are causing me a great deal of grief and money if my other equipment is damaged!

 

[Anole]

Can't think of anything that could be wrong with your LNBf, but these tests might ferret out something if there is an anomaly:

If you have a 2x4 or 2x4 multiswitch, hook it to the two outputs of your LNBf.
See if the multiswitch outputs work normal, selecting V & H polarity.
Swap the LNBf outputs between the two multiswitch inputs and repeat.
If all you have is a 4x4, 5x8, or other multiswitch, use the NON-22khz inputs.

If ya don't have a multiswitch available, try two receivers.
Set one to V and one to H.
Well, set to: V - H, then H - V, then V - V, then H - H.
All combinations should work fine.
If they do, then you might try turning on 22khz with the two receivers and repeat the tests.
That shouldn't cause any troubles.


On another note, how's your ground-bonding between the site with the dishes, and the receivers in the house?

 

[McGuyver]

Can't think of anything that could be wrong with your LNBf, but these tests might ferret out something if there is an anomaly:

If you have a 2x4 or 2x4 multiswitch, hook it to the two outputs of your LNBf.
See if the multiswitch outputs work normal, selecting V & H polarity.
Swap the LNBf outputs between the two multiswitch inputs and repeat.
If all you have is a 4x4, 5x8, or other multiswitch, use the NON-22khz inputs.

If ya don't have a multiswitch available, try two receivers.
Set one to V and one to H.
Well, set to: V - H, then H - V, then V - V, then H - H.
All combinations should work fine.
If they do, then you might try turning on 22khz with the two receivers and repeat the tests.
That shouldn't cause any troubles.


On another note, how's your ground-bonding between the site with the dishes, and the receivers in the house?

Anole, that's creative thinking and I thank you but I have decided to call it done. Nobody should have to go through all the headaches of troubleshooting these LNB's, really. They should work without going through all the grief. All of my other LNB's work perfectly in the setup as it is but not these babie's.

I've sent an email to the seller "hyper megasat" and I'm waiting for a reply. I'm also waiting for WSI to return my email which they haven't for 2 days now.

If things get tough, I'm contacting eBay buyer protection staff and try to resolve it that way. These DMX242 LNB's are either going back or on the shelf because they won't work with my proposed setup. I'll buy another brand of dual output C-LNB's simply put.

What I was hoping for is to see if anybody here has these LNB's and are using them with 22KHz sw's. I'm really hoping for WSI to read this thread and reply with some answers.

 

[McGuyver]

I did receive a reply from the eBay seller of these two DMX242 LNB's, "hypermegasat", and he has asked that I keep him informed as to what response I get from "WSI".

Now going on the third day with no further response from "WSI"

I'm still waiting!

EDIT: Just received an email reply from WSI indicating they have not been able to duplicate the problem and are discussing it with their engineer's and will respond when ready.

 

[Mr Tony]

you do know you could always PM Robbie?
WSIATLANTA

 

[Anole]

. . . or, if you'll talk nice, we'll let you phone him up.
I've talked to him before, and he's gone out of his way to be nice to members.
But do it before you're at the end of your rope; no point in being so mad as to be rude. -

 

[McGuyver]

you do know you could always PM Robbie?
WSIATLANTA

Thanks Iceberg, I didn't know that. I don't know who is the individual at WSI responding to my emails because they don't give their name, I would like to know, guess I'll have to ask.

This is the latest reply I got this morning, a copy and paste of the email reply:

"I have received your emails and am discussing with the engineer to figure out what the issue would be. He has not been able to duplicate the problem. I will be discussing it with him more today as well. I will email you once we fully discuss it.

Thanks,
WS International"

It's odd that they can't duplicate the problem and I can't help NOT duplicate the problem regardless of the receivers, equipment or how simple the testing configuration. Whenever a 22KHz is used, the setup won't work.

 

[McGuyver]

. . . or, if you'll talk nice, we'll let you phone him up.
I've talked to him before, and he's gone out of his way to be nice to members.
But do it before you're at the end of your rope; no point in being so mad as to be rude. -

I hear ya, I'm trying my best, (you're talking to a hot headed Italian, lol) it's frustrating especially when they say the problem can't be duplicated. Maybe they mean; they haven't been able to test it.

As long as they continue to respond with a simple message such as the one I posted, I'm content for the time being but please don't ignore me.

BTW, Is this the phone #? 1-888-276-6436

 

[WSInternational]

Hi,

Sorry I've been absent from the forum lately. I have been traveling back and forth and when I travel, I don't log in here and browse through as much as I'd like to. I have logged in to retrieve private messages, but that's about it.

Anyway, I've been aware of the problem for the past few days and have been discussing it with McGuyver & the engineer trying to resolve the issue.

I did not personally test a 22KHz switch with the DMX242. I have relied on the test results of others.

I'm working with the engineer to duplicate the problem and to resolve the issue.

I apologize for any inconvenience this may have caused, but unfortunately, when issues like this arise, sometimes we can resolve them fairly quickly if the problem is known, but sometimes, if the problem is unknown, it will take some time to resolve it.

I will keep everybody updated on the progress.

 

[McGuyver]

Iceberg,

this is the diagram that Robby sent me, the engineer drew this up and suggests testing this configuration. keep in mind I don't have 11 lnb's, it's only an example so you can test 2 or 3 lnb's

thanks

 

[Mr Tony]

That diagram isnt going to work. You cannot have 2 diseqc switches in line unless the one closest to the receiver is a uncommitted switch like a 8x1

disregard the top row of diseqcs. The diagram you posted in the original post is what I will go off and try to duplicate

 

[McGuyver]

That diagram isnt going to work. You cannot have 2 diseqc switches in line unless the one closest to the receiver is a uncommitted switch like a 8x1

disregard the top row of diseqcs. The diagram you posted in the original post is what I will go off and try to duplicate

thanks Ice, I do have a new Digiwave 8x1 switch that I planned to use if neccessary, in fact it would eliminate having to use 22khz. I believe the engineer was trying to interface the lnb's and 22khz's using diseqc's.