Why have it if Quality is bad :no

[Scubasoul]

I am not pointing fingers here. I am trying to see what you guys see that I do not see. I always take opinions very seriously (including yours ChetK) but there has been others (opinion, not necessarily yours ChetK) that add very little to the discussion. What I posted is very basic to any of you, but I did not post those instructions specifically to you but to those that say right out of the box "HD is as good as SD on V*".

Now let's get back to the discussion. What are those Halos that you are watching on V*? I haven't seen that one and maybe I should start looking for them as well.

Look for sharp edges against light background, e.g. body contour, head contour, etc. You will see a small white "shadow" around that edge.

 

[Vreesar]

Chetk, sounds like you are having interference or bad signal quality. Not bad compression. If you say your TV is set correctly and your STB is set correctly then I'd go check grounding, connections, and cabling. You'll find the problem in one of those if as you say the TV and STB settings are ok.

If it were a compression issue than everyone, not just some people, would notice the same things. One other thing it could be is your STB is malfuctioning were it is not uncompressing the data correctly or fast enough to keep up with the data input.

 

[woodyak]

My experience with Voom's PQ has been top notch. I've only had HD channels via OTA in the past so I can't compare it to the other providers. I can say that the Voom HD channels look just as good as the locals and the locals look tremendous (when the source is good).

I've been with Voom for 1 month and so far it's been pretty good. The install was a bitch but since then I haven't had any problems. I was ecstatic to see they got TNTHD just in time for the NBA finals.

I had Dish for 2 years and I've never been happy with them. I had to throw away $500 to get it installed for 2 TV's and the PQ has always been terrible on my 42" plasma. For awhile I just watched DVD's because the SDTV was such bad quality. I wanted to get their HD stuff but I didn't want to pay $500 more dollars and an extra $15 a month to get 6 channels, that looped content anyway.

Voom isn't perfect but I think it's the best thing going now and it looks like it's going to get better. That being said, I'll only recommend it to other HT people that have the energy and willingness to deal with new technology. I already get enough helpdesk calls from my parents already.

 

[andrzej]

I agree with Vreesar. Halo effect on my previous system was caused by interference. Line conditioner helped a lot.

 

[Scubasoul]

Chetk, sounds like you are having interference or bad signal quality. Not bad compression. If you say your TV is set correctly and your STB is set correctly then I'd go check grounding, connections, and cabling. You'll find the problem in one of those if as you say the TV and STB settings are ok.

If it were a compression issue than everyone, not just some people, would notice the same things. One other thing it could be is your STB is malfuctioning were it is not uncompressing the data correctly or fast enough to keep up with the data input.

Hey Vreesar you work for Motorola, right?

I use the exact same cables as with D*. As a matter of fact I just hooked up the new LNB/Receiver.

The halo's I'm seeing have nothing to do with cabling, etc, at least in my case.

 

[ChetK]

Here's a picture of what HD should look like:

Here's the halo's I'm seeing:

 

[ChetK]

That's JPEG compression 101.

It holds true for MPEG-2 compression as well. However, you have to multiply this that picture by 29.97 fps.

 

[andrzej]

Oh my, Chet!
If that's an example of your Voom picture it is terrible. Not even close to what I see on my display on HD channels.

 

[ChetK]

It's an extreme example to show Sean what I mean. It's not that bad.

 

[Scubasoul]

That's JPEG compression 101.

It holds true for MPEG-2 compression as well. However, you have to multiply this that picture by 29.97 fps.

I see the same thing Chetk.

Guess we're alone though

 

[Vreesar]

Yep, but not in the reciever departments. I work in the cellular phone infrastructer business.

There are so many things that can cause what your seeing I'll probably forget a few but here goes.

Bad cables
Bad connectors/connections
grounding problems (which can cause polarity issues)
Power faid with switchs/duplexers etc
Uncomprestion problems in your STB
poor analog to digital conversion in the STB or TV
Interference be it magnetic or "noise"
Finally, I've noticed some brands of projection devices do not do a good job of changing formats say from 720 to 1080 which cause "halo"s. This last is what I have seen in some show rooms so might not be accurate.

 

[Scubasoul]

Yep, but not in the reciever departments. I work in the cellular phone infrastructer business.

There are so many things that can cause what your seeing I'll probably forget a few but here goes.

Bad cables
Bad connectors/connections
grounding problems (which can cause polarity issues)
Power faid with switchs/duplexers etc
Uncomprestion problems in your STB
poor analog to digital conversion in the STB or TV
Interference be it magnetic or "noise"
Finally, I've noticed some brands of projection devices do not do a good job of changing formats say from 720 to 1080 which cause "halo"s. This last is what I have seen in some show rooms so might not be accurate.

Your fifth point makes sense to me.

 

[ChetK]

I'd say it's only about half as bad as my example above. However, it's definitely there and all I know is that I didn't get that with Dish Network. It's just a matter of bit rate. Increase the bit rate, you get better quality. It really is digital video 101.

Also, it's not my connections. I'm using the exact same component cables I had connected to Dish receiver. Same power (exact same outlet in my power strip in fact.) I'm getting a high signal strength. I'm trying to tell you, it ain't the my fault. It has nothing to do with my house. You can rule that out of the equation. It's fact.

 

[CraziFuzzy]

A possible reason why you may be getting more of this effect than others may actually be signal quality (to the dish). If you are not getting a perfect feed fomr the satellite, which noone gets every bit, then the box has to do error correction, this results in fewer usable data chunks, and the MPEG-2 decoder cannot refine as many of the details, resulting in the halos and other artifacts. Eventually, the signal can get so degraded that it cannot even preset a section of the picture, which is what causes the tiling. The box does a LOT of error corrections, unfortunatly, the voom box does not present a way to count the correctable and uncorrectable packets, (like motorola's digital cable boxes do).

 

[Scubasoul]

A possible reason why you may be getting more of this effect than others may actually be signal quality (to the dish). If you are not getting a perfect feed fomr the satellite, which noone gets every bit, then the box has to do error correction, this results in fewer usable data chunks, and the MPEG-2 decoder cannot refine as many of the details, resulting in the halos and other artifacts. Eventually, the signal can get so degraded that it cannot even preset a section of the picture, which is what causes the tiling. The box does a LOT of error corrections, unfortunatly, the voom box does not present a way to count the correctable and uncorrectable packets, (like motorola's digital cable boxes do).

I have a brand new receiver (2nd one) plus a 30" dish peaked at 98.
I'm on the East coast.
OTA runs at 88- 95 depending on channel.

I doubt it.

 

[Vreesar]

Oops, scratch the comment I had initially put here for you scubasoul.

Chetk, I understand what your saying but the Source is the same for everyone and for you or a couple others to be experiencing the problem and other not see'ing the same means that it HAS to be your equipment. Either faulty equipments/software or install.

 

[gutter]

There is no question that my D* stb (Sammy 160) has a different color palette than the V* stb. I

I would agree with that as I have said about my Sammy 165 which shows a wider color palette and sharper picture. I still feel it is in the Motoral Box and maybe not on the transmission. the locals that come thru the Motorola doesn't look as good as they do thru my Sammy T165 STB. Again I think it is odd that I would have to give up a DVI connection for component and a straight digitial path to get 10% improvement. Something is wrong. As others have said...it is not a disaster and I will hold with Voom. But I wish they would address it and explain why we are seeing this difference from the Motorola box.

It is better if they acknowledge it and what their plans or to improve PQ.. not just increase channels with wm9 or MGEG4. What will those methods do to improve PQ and do they expect changes in the box to address this issue. As a 30 year person in advertising and PR , I have learned that people will hold with you if you are just up front and frank.

I don't see the people on here as complainers, I see Voom's error for not addressing it head on. If they did, most subs would give them room. I do like the choice and yes I like all the movies. haven't seen those in years.

 

[NoVAHD]

I have to agree with ChetK on this one. I see the same "halo" effect that I didn't see when I had Cox Cable HD. It has to be a compression probably because my OTA HD is very close if not better than Cox cable.

 

[Sean Mota]

Ok, I will look tonight very carefully to see if I see this. Anyone else see the Halo effect?

 

[Scubasoul]

Oops, scratch the comment I had initially put here for you scubasoul.

Chetk, I understand what your saying but the Source is the same for everyone and for you or a couple others to be experiencing the problem and other not see'ing the same means that it HAS to be your equipment. Either faulty equipments/software or install.

I just did that, all brand new equipment, NOT used. Specifically requested a brand new receiver.

It's NOT the equipment. It's either a compression problem (typically this kind of halos ARE a compression problem), or hopefully, a software problem somehow related to the fps issue in the receiver (or some other software issue).

We shall see.