Why is it so hard to refer to a bird by its location?

[freezy]

You could help a lot of newbs like myself out a lot by giving up the cutesy Spaceman Spiff names that were given these locations we are trying to lock onto. My receiver doesn't use these. Why should I? My box uses a number and a letter that tells it & me that the satellite should be in one hemisphere or the other.

I know some will come back and say, "but they don't stay in the same place, they move, then what do we call them?"

Uhhh...maybe whatever the new frigging location is relative to scanning it that day.

If it's currently moving and you have a setup that can track it still, sure...go ahead...call it by it's spaceship name

 

[stogie5150]

Its a rite of passage. When you can keep up with a satellite's NAME as well as location, you are on the way to becoming a veteran. Until then you are either an Contrarian who insists everyone do things his way, or you are an old guy who doesn't care anymore, who just wants to get on with it.

Extra points are awarded if you can name ALL the names that the position has ever been called in the past 10 years or so.

Consider it a challenge. :up

 

[freezy]

I'm all about efficiency.

If we all know it's an apple, then why call it a...

round red fruit with a high pectin content that is often used in pies and also is featured in the Christian book of Genesis.


Useless nomenclature excludes newcomers to your beloved hobby. Some are worried that C-band channel packaged premium channels are disappearing. Well if a hobby's lingo is cumbersome, a 12' dish in the yard is out of the question.
Make it as easy as possible and more people will enjoy it. Then there could be some growth in that very small market...maybe.

I get a kick out of the Linux geeks that still use the command line and belittle Linux users that prefer the KDE desktop. Umm, penguin-boy KDE brought Linux to the world. Go ahead and use your ./`cd mk dir su~ boot=nocdma malarky....

I like apples

 

[Pepper]

freezy,

Thank you. This has been one of my pet peeves for years. I know, for example, that Al Jazeera is on 97W. I don't remember, and frankly don't care, what the name of that satellite is.

 

[freezy]

I can see the prettiest girl at the ball standing by the punch bowl but I don't need to know her by name.

It'll help if things go well. Not needed for just looking.

 

[stogie5150]

When in Rome, you do as the Romans do.

You call it 91w, I'll call it G17. Or G11. Depending on how I feel that day. I may even say 91w.

This a HOBBY. This isn't like linux. If someone is looking for EASY, the number for Claude at DishStore is above.

NONE of this is easy, nor SHOULD be easy. It takes TIME, and effort, AND some HELP a LOT of the time to UNDERSTAND what is happening, why its happening, and how to fix it, or at least not for it to happen again at the very least. I been doing this almost three years, and what I know for sure could fill a thimble compared to some that post here.

We don't need former hackers here ( not saying you are, BTW, just an example), trying to figure this out, only to waste our time when the next fix comes along, as it invariably does. Nor do we need just ANYBODY knowing what we find, and where we find it. Loose lips sink ships. It happened in the 80's, it can happen again.

 

[TRG]

I'm all about efficiency.

If we all know it's an apple, then why call it a...

round red fruit with a high pectin content that is often used in pies and also is featured in the Christian book of Genesis.


Useless nomenclature excludes newcomers to your beloved hobby. Some are worried that C-band channel packaged premium channels are disappearing. Well if a hobby's lingo is cumbersome, a 12' dish in the yard is out of the question.
Make it as easy as possible and more people will enjoy it. Then there could be some growth in that very small market...maybe.

I get a kick out of the Linux geeks that still use the command line and belittle Linux users that prefer the KDE desktop. Umm, penguin-boy KDE brought Linux to the world. Go ahead and use your ./`cd mk dir su~ boot=nocdma malarky....

I like apples

I'm a GNOME desktop guy myself. For what its worth whenever I talk about satellites I use the current name and orbital location. Example AMC-15 @ 105W. I conducted a poll on this subject last year. You can view the results here.
http://www.satelliteguys.us/free-air-fta-discussion/133842-discussing-satellites.html

 

[Pepper]

stogie: We're not in Rome. I know that 'cause I can't get any of the Hot Birds at 13E.

And I don't think anybody's asking to make it EASY, just don't go out of your way to make it HARDER.

 

[stogie5150]

stogie: We're not in Rome. I know that 'cause I can't get any of the Hot Birds at 13E.

And I don't think anybody's asking to make it EASY, just don't go out of your way to make it HARDER.

Oh, uh uh. I had to learn all this stuff, newbies have to also. Like I said, rite of passage.

 

[Mr Tony]

I try to use both if need be but its when folks use old names then we wonder

For the longest time, I called it SBS6 which was at 74W....but H2 is there now
I still call it G10 even though its G18

Alot of the old C-Band guys and 4DTV'ers use the 2 digit designation that the 4DTV has
so you'll hear T4, GB, G0, G5, C3 & C4. Thats just how they are

I have a list that is a sticky with the new names of the satellites and some more recently older names

 

[freezy]

newbies have to learn, why? some kind of mental hazing?

kinda like a tech school degree vs a community AA college degree.

I learned exactly what I needed to know at tech school in the same 2 years as my 2 year AA from a community college.

my AA is full of a ton of crap I will never in my life will ever need except playing Trivial Pursuit. (eg. a Kline is a geographically advantageous frequency of genetic traits, a bass clef looks like this):, George Sand was a woman writer, etc... )

The last 4 years of college (part time) were more useful though. (no bachelors degree,yet, maybe someday)

I don't see the usefulness of names. It makes no difference where it was or what has moved next to it. If I gotta aim at a can that is geosynchronous to a certain longitude it doesn't make sense to add another process in my brain even if I think I have all that gobbledygook memorized. I still need to align to where it is, not it's history. How we find current location is by number.

Einstein said something like, "why should I remember something if I know where to get the information?" .

He took this further and his wife would pin notes on his shirt so he would get on the right bus.

 

[ACRadio]

I don't see the usefulness of names. It makes no difference where it was or what has moved next to it.

If all satellites were identical twins that would be so...but they're not. And if we all had dishes of sufficient size that were 2 degree compliant it wouldn't really matter...but we don't. Satellites have different personalities...they all have different footprints, many with different power levels, and lots of KU sats have different band plans. Some transponders on certain satellites are padded while others aren't.

Take a senario where someone can receive an S2 signal with an 8 foot dish which isn't 2 degree compliant...the signal is marginal, but he can still receive it. The satellite beside it has a signal on the same frequency, but they are using a padded transponder and the EIRP is reduced, so even though the beamwidth of the dish is a bit wide and it's seeing some offending signal it won't prevent the S2 signal from achieving lock. Now lets say that the satellite beside it gets replaced for whatever reason, and that transponder on the adjacent satellite isn't padded so the EIRP of that offending signal becomes noticeably stronger, effectively wiping out the desired S2 signal. The op then scratches his head, wondering why the signal was here yesterday but is not present today. Other signals on the same satellite are identical...so the troubleshooting begins. If they had just known....

The bottom line is...it makes a large difference what satellite is where, and even more so with hobbyists that try to get by with the smallest dish possible, as changes with adjacent satellites causes many more problems than people realize.

 

[eurosport]

Well said, ACRadio! :up

 

[MikeinBaja]

Both sides of this discussion have merit.

I've basically learned FTA here at this site. But beams is beams guys - referring to a bird in it's degree slot creates a "common language" that we all speak.

By the same token, those new to FTA could learn a great deal from the dudes (and dudesses?) on this board. Great deal of sat smarts here. As long as you are legal - best tech board out there.

Middle ground folks.

Just my 2 pennies worth.

 

[TRG]

Both sides of this discussion have merit.

I've basically learned FTA here at this site. But beams is beams guys - referring to a bird in it's degree slot creates a "common language" that we all speak.

By the same token, those new to FTA could learn a great deal from the dudes (and dudesses?) on this board. Great deal of sat smarts here. As long as you are legal - best tech board out there.

Middle ground folks.

Just my 2 pennies worth.

Agreed, when we did a poll last year (not scientific mind you) a majority of the people here voted for using both satellite name and orbital location when posting. There were just a few that voted "name only."

Sounds like "middle ground" to me.

 

[Lone Cloud]

You could help a lot of newbs like myself out a lot by giving up the cutesy Spaceman Spiff names that were given these locations we are trying to lock onto. My receiver doesn't use these. Why should I? My box uses a number and a letter that tells it & me that the satellite should be in one hemisphere or the other.

I know some will come back and say, "but they don't stay in the same place, they move, then what do we call them?"

Uhhh...maybe whatever the new frigging location is relative to scanning it that day.

If it's currently moving and you have a setup that can track it still, sure...go ahead...call it by it's spaceship name

I COMPLETELY agree with freezy, and have written so on this and other sites.

Sorry, but I think it's a childish "nyah, nyah,nyah nyah nya" I know something you don't know thing. I don't WANT to keep up with the corporate acquisitions and mergers and renaming of birds for some silly pr purpose.

I do not think it's a rite of passage. I do think it's inefficient and even inconsiderate. By the way, the premise that "if you can't take the naming thing, you can't be a C-bander" is, in my case FALSE.

I am on my second big dish, have two HD FTA receivers and two
SD FTA receivers. As well I have built a home theater computer with which i access s-2 stations.

And I name all of my satellites in all of my receivers by orbital location and band such as 97 C for the C-band bird at 97 west. It's easier, more precise, and I just do not care what some corporate idea man wants to call them this week.

 

[Fizbi]

Maybe cause there are multiple birds stacked at the same location?

Not every location, but some.

At TV stations it's easier to dial up a feed by bird name. If you say, 129W for example, then which bird?

Not a problem for us FTA folks always looking for feeds, but there are times when a feed request comes in at the last second, and the engineers bust a gut trying to get it dialed in before the feed starts. They don't have time to call the source and ask, WHICH BIRD?!

Every time the bird get's renamed or moved, TV stations scramble to reprogram and update their receiver menus and labels. New hires are trained to look for bird names so they can quickly punch it in. Later, they learn the locations.

 

[GrumpyGuy]

To my way of thinking, orbital location is the most significant single bit of information regarding a geostationary satellite.

In my personal lists all satellites are assigned new names that begin with a number representing the satellite's current orbital location in tenths of a degree:

• H2 is renamed "740 H2"
• AMC15 is renamed "1050 AMC15"

 

[stogie5150]

newbies have to learn, why? some kind of mental hazing?

Yes. I'm sorry nobody let you in on it before now.

I don't see the usefulness of names. It makes no difference where it was or what has moved next to it. If I gotta aim at a can that is geosynchronous to a certain longitude it doesn't make sense to add another process in my brain even if I think I have all that gobbledygook memorized. I still need to align to where it is, not it's history. How we find current location is by number..

Doesn't matter. It was done by name long before you and I got into FTA, and I suspect it will be done that way long after we are gone. The quicker you accept this, the easier things will be. Different folks do it different ways.

Besides, isn't it a bit arrogant to be-bop into a site and DEMAND that we all do things YOUR way? I think it is. :

There's a way that its been done since the 70's, learn it, love it, live it.

Sorry, but I think it's a childish "nyah, nyah,nyah nyah nya" I know something you don't know thing. I don't WANT to keep up with the corporate acquisitions and mergers and renaming of birds for some silly pr purpose.

Then don't. But you might not know what folks are talking about, simple as that. I don't go into a field and demand they change their nomenclature just because I can't be bothered to learn it because I think its stupid. ITS THE WAY THINGS ARE.

I do not think it's a rite of passage. I do think it's inefficient and even inconsiderate.

Call my Galaxy 17-loving butt an inefficient, inconsiderate bastard then.

 

[GrumpyGuy]

Wow