Why So Rude Towards New Members?

[Scott Greczkowski]

Thanks Brian for your post. We need to welcome everyone to the site even those that were at one time "hackers". The satellite hobby and industry is still something that amazes me every day. Those who hacked are now looking for something to do with their equipment, it is our chance to tech them what real FTA is.

I have said it before but will say it again, we were all newbies at one time. Please welcome eveyone here and lets teach them about how amazing this technology is.

 

[melbfla]

My $0.02 . In my opinion not sure if the people that are quick to judge are so much being rude as saying (ha now you are coming looking for help) and we know things that you do not. Sure there is a lot of information already available but like all things takes time to read and research a lot of us do not even take the time to read important things as when you sign a contract (work,cell phone, before surgery etc...) some do . Finding a very useful site with so much knowledge about the only one on the web, out of all the sites in the internet that claim to be fta wears you out.
And by the way here is an example for the ones that feel the need to judge quickly.
First let me say I have never ever even had cable in my house or Dish or Direct TV , always had and ota antenna or a dish back in the 80's I had C-band now just Ku band after I got tired of hurricanes taking the big dish out.
If you are scanning and by chance find out that the Dish or Direct TV has problems with the inscription and the channels are open do you watch them ?
Or do the one the ones that are quick to judge and righteous say no I can not do that is not right. Like I said no love for paying services here but it is a business , If you go to buy some milk to the corner store and find the owner forgot to lock it and he is not around is it ok to get the milk and leave ?

 

[riffjim4069]

Thanks for posting Brian. I agree with almost everything you mentioned. :

 

[turbosat]

good example

I received this today, after talking with this member for a month or two via PM:

It's party time here Tony, we are all heavily intoxicated as we got the satellite in one time. Signal strenght is about 85 % and the quality is 60 %. Could not get it any better.

The picture is fantastic (to me) and sound is also perfect. One funny thing happened: the remote control stopped working. Not a biggie as we use just one button the on and off switch.

Great fun.

Fuif



Quote:
Originally Posted by turbosat
Just set the LO to 10750 in your satellite-setup page and you'll be good. Usually they send a cable along with the receiver, maybe that got too expensive lol. Radio Shack has them I think, they used to.
Updating won't affect most of the functions, there were just some bug fixes released in the software updates, things that fix motor control bugs and diseqc-switch problems. That long thread on the Merc2 in the Reviews section tells about some of the early problems people found. You can check what version yours came with, its in the system information screen someplace. You might not notice anything better/different if you do the update-its just something I always do. Good luck with your aiming today.




He wanted a particular channel on one satellite, and help selecting a better receiver to do it with. After some suggestions as to which box and where to get it, he managed to aim his dish and locate the target channel.
Love those happy endings!

 

[Mr Tony]

As I mentioned to satelliteav the thread he was talking about got deleted in error.

I agree we were all newbies once but there are some posts that just seem to rub me the wrong way. Sure newbies may use the wrong terminology but when you see words in a thread like
"until N3 hit"
"use to work until N3"
"worked fine on N2"
"had D**h and B*V" (or any combination of *, crooked letters, etc)

or they list their receiver collection and every receiver was a hacker special. Dont get me wrong, I have had my collection of crap receivers but when someone says they have 2 or 3 receivers by the same manufacturer and they were crap to begin with (I guess if I had a receiver that was junk for FTA but not for stealing I wouldnt buy another one)

Here is an other example. I called the guy out on it
http://www.satelliteguys.us/dish-ne...w-can-i-get-red-wing-hockey-south-dakota.html

Last year with a Free To Air receiver I was able to get nearly all Wing games. This year FTA is gone

Boy last I checked free to air wasnt gone

But I do agree some people have jumped the gun and that really needs to stop. With most hacker receivers done folks are trying to come to the good side. Too bad Equity isnt up there anymore or we'd probably have a lot more
I say its a win win if we can get someone to use their FTA receiver the way it was intended to
-they upgrade to a bigger dish (hopefully through our sponsers)
-they help out other folks down the line

But lets not point the gun at folks right away unless it is way obvious....we had one today where the guy had a hacker receiver and a IKS device and needed install help. Thats a no brainer. We use to have a mod here who was like that....and honestly still is that way somewhere else...shoot first ask later. Lets not be like that guys.

The difference is some folks try to educate themselves BEFORE asking questions. Its painfully obvious to a lot of the veteran guys, and the Moderators here, who the former hackers are, just how they ask the questions and the terminology they use. AND the fact that they do NO research on their own, they expect to be TOLD everything, just like when they needed a BIN to get their free tv back. If someone isn't wiling to at least read some FAQ's and learn what an LNB is, what size dish they need, what's on each satellite...I see the same questions asked over and over, and the answers are in the FAQ for goodness sakes! HELP YOURSELF FIRST, is what I am saying.

agreed stogie. Some simple reading would help gain lots of knowledge. I did bold the one part that is true. But it may be a different slope when it comes to the dish size. I mean how many threads do we have here where folks got KU on a smaller dish (18", 20" etc) or C-Band on a 1 meter dish? Yes I agree that usually they dont read the posts and just assume a D500 will work fine for all the KU channels out there when we know it wont.

But I guess back to the issue...with more folks coming to the good side, lets invite them here and hope they enjoy their stay

 

[MikeinBaja]

Brian,

Good discussion thread - not sure it will completely sink in with all, but kudos for the try.

Mike

 

[guapoharry]

I'm not saying it doesn't happen but I've never experienced it so I'm trying to understand what this is all about.

A link to a specific thread would give some of us an example of what you mean. Making blanket statements without being able to reference anything isn't very convincing to some of us.

That said, Brian, I appreciate your sponsorship and always enjoy your postings, products, specials and giveaways.

Agreed.

Yeah, this was my point. But without so much as a little specifics, I was slapped down and accused of sticking my head in the sand and pretending it dodn't happen.

I'm sorry if I offended anyone. I don't think I did but I guess I'm not sure now.

Now without any real explanation of the offense, we have a poster apologizing for having NOT done anything offensive... THAT's offensive...

Blanket statements...... Too bad that links are necessary to prove that something is awry. Just a reminder to be helpful!

Here is an example from the thread that was removed. I have snipped the members names as I am not meaning to call any one member out from this morning's exchange. ...

...Not a single Satellite Guy offered any assistance to answer his questions! ...

Links or some explanation beyond anecdotes is essential. If you were charged with a claim, or even if you are a bystander and want to properly learn the lesson, wouldn't you want to have it spelled out?

Brian. you also snipped out the timeframe.

batzzz19 11:54PM 31 Oct 09

t******* 12:49 AM 1 Nov 09

batzzz19 01:31AM 1 Nov 09

L******** 05:52AM 1 Nov 09

1****** 05:52AM 1 Nov 09

S********** 07:56AM 1 Nov 09

This whole premise of no-one offering assistance from the OP first post at Midnight through 6 am is a bit much. No one assisted while most people are sleeping? :yikes

well done brian. now they have the facts and evidence of what happened and how it happened. if at least they would have answered the guy's question at least , but nothing , nada , seems that it is so difficult for them to help or maybe they did not know the answers eh?.
...

Granted. People weren't especially nice and they didn't assist with a problem that wasn't explained at first. The OP later explained what he was trying to get at 01:31AM

This was not a example of proper netiquette. No excuses.

It would still be nice to see the thread referenced in the first post. Good thing we in the US have the privilege of a Habeas corpus - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia@@AMEPARAM@@/wiki/File:Ambox_globe_content.svg" class="image"><img alt="Globe icon." src="http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/b/bd/Ambox_globe_content.svg/48px-Ambox_globe_content.svg.png"@@AMEPARAM@@commons/thumb/b/bd/Ambox_globe_content.svg/48px-Ambox_globe_content.svg.png and discovery in judicial matters. Unless some evidence to back the charges is presented, we have claims people can be bullied with without knowing exactly what happened.

 

[lapco]

Brian:
Thanks for your above remarks. I concur. My first dish was a 6 footer in 1982. I'm still a newbie. Inadvertently deleted all channels on a client's 2005 Fortec Star Ultra Lifetime FTA Adventist receiver, and don't remember the button entries to restore them. Can you help me here, or should I call you?

 

[TNGTony]

One of the solutions to overall "nastiness" to newbies in FTA is for members to report possible hackers vs confronting the potential hacker or ex-hacker in a matter that could come off as nasty.

If a member is unsure of the motives of the newbie, DON'T RESPOND and report the post. Tony, or one of the staff will respond as needed.

 

[DiscoLoveGrapes]

One of the solutions to overall "nastiness" to newbies in FTA is for members to report possible hackers vs confronting the potential hacker or ex-hacker in a matter that could come off as nasty.

If a member is unsure of the motives of the newbie, DON'T RESPOND and report the post. Tony, or one of the staff will respond as needed.

This is what I was thinking.

I get that people are a little trigger happy -- it's a little annoying to see people complain about the "lack of FTA" these days or how "FTA was shut down" as I read elsewhere. But it's tempting to accuse people of things in the threads without much evidence. Let the mods be the mods. If you have a concern, flag the post.

That said, I still find SG to be incredibly kind and patient to people who are eager to learn and eager to join in on this fun hobby.

 

[SatelliteAV]

Brian:
Thanks for your above remarks. I concur. My first dish was a 6 footer in 1982. I'm still a newbie. Inadvertently deleted all channels on a client's 2005 Fortec Star Ultra Lifetime FTA Adventist receiver, and don't remember the button entries to restore them. Can you help me here, or should I call you?

Factory default will restore. CAll our support staff if you need additional assistance.

 

[SatelliteAV]

I apologize if I offended anyone in sharing what I view as valid concerns in an open forum.

My wish remains..... For members to feel welcome, to learn and share!


"Good evening Mr. and Mrs. America and all the ships at sea." - Walter Winchell

 

[pedrogarcia]

I'm with you Brian! Politeness is about the only thing left in this word that is free.

 

[Cadsulfide]

Wow! An interesting thread.

The recent and albeit temporary demise of hacking equipment due to N3 has brought us a wave of potential new converts.

We should be welcoming them as I was welcomed a couple of years ago. Brian's point is spot on, there is no reason to flame anyone without just cause. Ignorance of "true FTA" is not just cause, and is curable.

That being said, many who visit are looking for a quick "fix" and will be unable or unwilling to read the FAQ's or learn what FTA really is. They are an irritation and a distraction to those really interested in FTA. Those folks are potential new customers for subscription satellite I daresay.

 

[SpiffWilkie]

As for people asking questions that have been asked a million times...I've done that a couple of times myself. Sometimes my "search-fu" is not as strong as other members and sometimes I just assumed my situation is unique (which after a while on here, I realize there's a 99% chance somebody else has encountered your problem before).
Anyhow, a nice, "Check out this FAQ" or your question was answered in this (link to thread) is always welcome.
I have seen a few posts where the veteran responds, "Try steps A, B, C and D and then let us know where the outcome is."
I guess my point is, we can at least point them to a FAQ or previous resolution or offer some brief suggestions. If someone is really trying to hack or participate in theft of service, they obviously won't get any help from the resources on here and hopefully after looking around they will realize this and move along.

Meh, hopefully that all made sense. It's too early in the morning.

 

[melbfla]

One more thing the more customers, interest and activity for fta is one way I can see for companies like Fortec and others to develop new equipment like HD receivers that will do all the new formats and work as well as mine Fortec Lifetime Classic easy to use and reliable and dedicated to only FTA.
Personally I am not too crazy about something like the AZbox where you have to use the internet for up dates and fixes , just something else for the hackers to keep their virus writing skills going.

 

[Bill_KY]

Untapped Market ?

There is a growing interest in the "patriot community" (Alex Jones type of listeners) who are looking for other ways of receiving Alex Jones, Genesis Broadcasting Network and other alternative media...but don't have broadband and shortwave isn't that reliable. Some of them that do have broadband are concerned that the government will shut down or censor the internet ... (justifiable concern). FTA and 97 West (radio) is the answer.

There is one dealer (not a advertiser here) who aims for that market who sells a complete system with the STB already setup with 97W loaded up and the most interesting channels "remapped" up front, he sells the system under $200 shipped.

My point is we could have new members looking for information like how to set up FTA for Alex Jones and the conspiracy type programs on 97W, and so on. However, I did see comments surrounding Mountain James and my post regarding the new CMRI TV channel on 97 West. Some of the comments were not exactly ..... um "positive".


Regarding the "hacker" comments..... the only "positive" side effect is the glut of FTA receivers on E-Bay. I picked up another ViewSat for $17 shipped from E-bay. I'll use this in the spare room for 97/W and I think I'll set up another dish for WSEE/PBS...but that is another subject.

 

[tvropro]

We were all new members at one time so we should try to treat each new member with respect. If they talk about pirate things we should nicely tell them that we don't condone that here and to refrain from that type of posting.

 

[putney]

I don't know why you guys have problems with pirates! I thought Johnny Depp ruled!

But seriously, I'm new and have felt very welcome here. You get out of it what you put in.

That being said, there are a couple of personalities that I have found (harsh). Sometimes it's a fact that cadence and tone don't always transfer well into text. Other times it is just who they are, and if they can offer good advice, accept it. If not, deal with it anyway.

Good post, good discussion.

 

[Mr Tony]

Personally I am not too crazy about something like the AZbox where you have to use the internet for up dates and fixes , just something else for the hackers to keep their virus writing skills going.

You dont need to use the internet option to update the software on the azbox. You can use a usb drive. I know the azbox seems to have an update every week or so but when the Visionsat came out, it seemed like there was a new update all the time too. We used a usb drive to update the software too