Will there be surprises in Mitchell's report today?

"Thats your OPINION thats not a fact."

But of course it's my opinion, you're the one reading them as a fact. All I'm doing is giving my opinion, people might not agree with me and I respect that.
 
Except that their seems to be factual evidence that the opiniosn you stated was in error.
 
There were 12 former Red Sox players on the list

Jeremy Giambi
Manzanillo
White
Clemens
Vaughn
Donnels
Donnelly
Lansing
Merker
Gagne
Crawford
Canseco

and a Sox GM knowing that a player had steroid past...dealing away Gabbard a decent prospect and another player, for a run at the WS.

If Gagne was an integral part of the WS and not an anchor around the Sox necks dont you think everyone would have questioned the Sox championship?

I love it though. After years of Sox fans being accused of having Yankee envy, it now seems pretty evident that worm has turned.

I think the question is will the Yanks win a championship this Century? As of now the Sox are the team of the decade and the century!:p:neener
 
There were 12 former Red Sox players on the list

Jeremy Giambi
Manzanillo
White
Clemens
Vaughn
Donnels
Donnelly
Lansing
Merker
Gagne
Crawford
Canseco

and a Sox GM knowing that a player had steroid past...dealing away Gabbard a decent prospect and another player, for a run at the WS.

If Gagne was an integral part of the WS and not an anchor around the Sox necks dont you think everyone would have questioned the Sox championship?

I love it though. After years of Sox fans being accused of having Yankee envy, it now seems pretty evident that worm has turned.

I think the question is will the Yanks win a championship this Century? As of now the Sox are the team of the decade and the century!:p:neener
The SOX use them while they are clean. When they go to the evil empire they get all juiced up. ;)
 
As I have surfed around the team pages of mlb.com, I notice that it is funny how many guys used prior injuries to smuggle steroids into the clubhouse. For example, Scott Schoenwies (I am sure I spelled that wrong) was able to receive packages from steroid suppliers because he once had cancer and everyone thought he was receiving medicine for that. No wonder people bounced back so quickly. These guys are just DIRTY. They didn't care about the fans, their team/teammates; they just wanted the big payday.
 
Here is a GREAT article....

The loud consternation you hear is just as artificial as baseball's players allegedly were. Never in two decades covering sports have I seen a larger disparity between what journalists keep telling me is important and what fans keep telling me isn't. For all the names that got smeared Thursday, for all the shame that got slathered upon an entire sport, is there one fan out there who won't go to games because of Thursday's news? Never mind thousands or hundreds. Do you know one person out there so indignant about Thursday's noise that he/she will stop giving baseball money?
Baseball has never been more popular than it is today in the only important way we keep score about these things in sports: revenue and attendance. Your customers aren't that upset when they keep reaching into their wallet and setting attendance records even after Rafael Palmeiro wags a finger at Congress. It is instructive that the politicians in our poor city were approving a plan to give the Marlins tax dollars for a new stadium Thursday while you could still hear the droning echo from Mitchell's news conference.

NO REMORSE

You don't hear a lot of remorse, do you? You hear a lot of denials and excuses from players. You hear a lot of ''It was B-12'' and ''It was for an injury'' and ``I thought it was flaxseed oil.''

But what you don't hear is ''I'm sorry.'' Why? Because they aren't sorry.

Oh, sure, there are some baseball players who don't like that they were caught. But regretting the reaction isn't the same as regretting the action. Roger Clemens isn't sorry that he extended his career into another mountain of millions that wouldn't have been available if not for the healing health of hormones that kept him playing into his 40s. Sammy Sosa isn't remorseful that he juiced himself from Dominican shoeshine boy to global icon. And all those named fringe players who got help to climb from minor-league buses to major-league pensions and health benefits aren't partaking in regret today about what they did for their families.

Looking for edges is what athletes do. Of course they would use pills and potions to heal and help. The surprise isn't that some would. The surprise is that some wouldn't. Coaches -- who are often former athletes -- sleep in their offices. Ronnie Lott has doctors cut off his finger so he can keep playing. Bill Romanowski took a hundred pills a day, ionized his own water and sent his fecal matter to a lab to make sure his body was working at maximum efficiency. We want our athletes to care irrationally. We just don't want them to care too much?

CHEATING

Baseball's players did what competition-aholics will always do. You can't allow athletes to police themselves, as baseball did. Its like asking piranha to be polite about feeding. When the choice in this cruel and lucrative an ecosystem is between being honorable or losing to the guy who isn't, that isn't much of a choice at all. Especially not when a few more miles per hour on your fastball is the difference between the minor leagues and setting yourself up for life with one contract. So baseball became pro wrestling -- big and fake entertainment. But we knew this long before Thursday. Baseball, it would appear, was the last among us to come to this conclusion. So Mitchell's past 20 months would have been the biggest waste of time anywhere in sports if not for the existence of the Dolphins.

CANSECO, BONDS WINNERS

Thursday's big winners? Jose Canseco, telling the truth even as his entire sport turned into a lie. Imagine that. The guy dancing around in a Speedo on The Surreal Life was the most credible guy in the room. And Barry Bonds, who is less alone today even after being named in Mitchell's pages. Now we know that just about everyone throwing toward Bonds was evidently on steroids, too. And that a whole mess of hitters were using steroids, but only one of them was breaking the home-run records.
Roger Clemens is to pitching what Bonds is to hitting. He is the white Bonds. And it'll be interesting to see if the media goes after him with the same intensity and name-calling with which it has enjoyed burying Bonds. If you want to asterisk Bonds' unprecedented greatness, then you must stamp Clemens with the same stain. Know this, though: Baseball isn't alone here, no matter how alone Bud Selig might have felt Thursday. Football is soaked in this stuff too. Not many humans don't get that kind of large and strong naturally. I asked one former Dolphin recently what percentage of the NFL was using Human Growth Hormone.

''Not that much,'' he said.

What's not that much?

``Twenty-five percent.''

Makes sense.

It is the most natural unnatural thing in the world.


Nothing but hot air surrounds Mitchell Report - 12/14/2007 - MiamiHerald.com
 
That last paragraph about Bonds and Canseco is proof of truth being stranger than fiction. I hadn't thought about it, but I'll bet Canseco's book sells a few more copies this week. As for Clemens, he seems to be taking quite a hit on this. As much as Bonds? Hard to make a qualitive judgement, but in my book this one hurt more. It's sad that the best hitter and pitcher of this era are both fakes. Nice find there ,Salsa.
 
That last paragraph about Bonds and Canseco is proof of truth being stranger than fiction. I hadn't thought about it, but I'll bet Canseco's book sells a few more copies this week. As for Clemens, he seems to be taking quite a hit on this. As much as Bonds? Hard to make a qualitive judgement, but in my book this one hurt more. It's sad that the best hitter and pitcher of this era are both fakes. Nice find there ,Salsa.

When the choice in this cruel and lucrative an ecosystem is between being honorable or losing to the guy who isn't, that isn't much of a choice at all. Especially not when a few more miles per hour on your fastball is the difference between the minor leagues and setting yourself up for life with one contract.

THAT section right there is THE most telling of ALL. THAT is why you had so many marginal players on this list. The ANNUAL difference between the BEST PAID minor league and the LOWEST PAID major leaguer is almost $250,000(in average, best paid minor league is about $50,000 and a major league minimum is around $350,000 to $400,000)!!! PLUS pension! I have mentioned before that I am assistance varsity coach at a very prominant cathlolic school whose teams every year are top 10 in the state and top 25 nation wide...it was NOT easy trying to explain this one today!

But in the end...can you REALLY and truly blame a minor leaguer??!! I sure as hell can't.
 
The example this sends to our children, IS the biggest reason this needs to cleaned up now. What did you tell your kids?

The truth. They asked me what I THOUGHT....I told them that I could not blame a minor league for doing what they did. I told them that they ALL worked hard to GET to the big leagues, but they(as in some of those marginal players) let their competative juices get the best of them and used steroids. They ALL know that 'roids does not actually BUILD muscle mass, just helps the body recoup faster so you can workout more.....they are NOT dumb.
 
I can ... It's no different than telling your kids that it's ok to steal. Are you saying that you can't blame a minor leaguer for doing drugs? My goodness Salsa, I hope this isn't the life's lesson you're teaching your athletes. If you can't have honor in your life, it's a life not worth living.

But in the end...can you REALLY and truly blame a minor leaguer??!! I sure as hell can't.
 
I just read what you said Salsa and I have to say I'm pretty shocked at the cavalier attitude you used to express your thoughts to your players. they "let their competitive juices get the best of them"? What a load of crap! Sorry Salsa but if I was the admin at your school, you'd be fired. That's just like saying that a rapist let his hormones get the best of him so he raped the girl. Again I'm sorry Salsa, but you seriously need to rethink this one. Your tacit agreement with steroids use by minor leaguers is completely counterproductive to school athletics.

The truth. They asked me what I THOUGHT....I told them that I could not blame a minor league for doing what they did. I told them that they ALL worked hard to GET to the big leagues, but they(as in some of those marginal players) let their competative juices get the best of them and used steroids. They ALL know that 'roids does not actually BUILD muscle mass, just helps the body recoup faster so you can workout more.....they are NOT dumb.
 
I just read what you said Salsa and I have to say I'm pretty shocked at the cavalier attitude you used to express your thoughts to your players. they "let their competitive juices get the best of them"? What a load of crap! Sorry Salsa but if I was the admin at your school, you'd be fired. That's just like saying that a rapist let his hormones get the best of him so he raped the girl. Again I'm sorry Salsa, but you seriously need to rethink this one. Your tacit agreement with steroids use by minor leaguers is completely counterproductive to school athletics.

I dont think comparing a man taking steroids to a rapist is a fair comparison.
Apples and Oranges.

I know we talk about money but I think the answer for steroid use is simpler than that.

These guys wanted to play ball, and be good at it, and were willing to do whatever it took to do it. Im not arguing that the money aspect isnt greater for major leaguers or anything like that.

I just believe that their use came from a drive to be the best that they could, and from a desire and a love for playing the game.

Im not condoning it, but to compare them to rapists is nuts.
 
I just read what you said Salsa and I have to say I'm pretty shocked at the cavalier attitude you used to express your thoughts to your players. they "let their competitive juices get the best of them"? What a load of crap! Sorry Salsa but if I was the admin at your school, you'd be fired.
I agree. Thats a horribly irresponsible attitude. Also indicates an inability to tell right from wrong. Pretty scarey. God help that school.
 
I can ... It's no different than telling your kids that it's ok to steal. Are you saying that you can't blame a minor leaguer for doing drugs? My goodness Salsa, I hope this isn't the life's lesson you're teaching your athletes. If you can't have honor in your life, it's a life not worth living.

You really need to understand how a professional athlete thinks and you don't. I told my kids that these minor leaguers went to far, they went the way of the short cut...."their competative juices got the best of them". I, as a former professional athlete CANNOT blame the minor leaguers/fringe major leaguers for taking steroids back then because there was no rule in baseball that said you could not take them. Most of them were taking SOMETHING to help them recoup from injuries. You ask ANY OF THEM if they can make the major leagues CLEANLY, they would all give a RESOUNDING YES. Ask them if they want to be a minor leaguer the rest of their lives.....you will get a resounding NO. My kids ask me the for the truth...and I told them. They ALSO know that it is illegal to use them and that are their age, there ARE side effects that carry consequences...again, they are not dumb and they KNOW they are not getting a "go do steroids because I approve of it" speech. I give them ALOT more credit for comprehending what my answer was than you do.
 
What a load of crap! Sorry Salsa but if I was the admin at your school, you'd be fired. That's just like saying that a rapist let his hormones get the best of him so he raped the girl. Again I'm sorry Salsa, but you seriously need to rethink this one. Your tacit agreement with steroids use by minor leaguers is completely counterproductive to school athletics.

And that is YOUR opinion. I spoke to BOTH the AD and the principles because I have knew there might be some miss understanding or backlash of what I said. I told them EXACTLY what I told my kids. They were not happy with the wording, but they knew I told the THE TRUTH. I didn't sugarcoat nor lie....just the truth.

Tell me, seeing that you brought up the rapist analogy, what do YOU think triggers a rapist? Do you think it is triggered by a song? A commercial for McDonald's? Or maybe an and ad in a magazine about Directv? It is
their urges/hormones/desires.

No need for apologies, I give my kids ALOT more credit then you give them, they knew where I was coming from. They knew I was not agreeing with steroids as much as I can see WHY they would do it.
 
Salsa I was in semi-pro ball. I now how athletes think. I do blame minor leaguers for taking steroids. The minor league athletes now know better. There is no excuse. period.

You really need to understand how a professional athlete thinks and you don't. I told my kids that these minor leaguers went to far, they went the way of the short cut...."their competative juices got the best of them". I, as a former professional athlete CANNOT blame the minor leaguers/fringe major leaguers for taking steroids back then because there was no rule in baseball that said you could not take them. Most of them were taking SOMETHING to help them recoup from injuries. You ask ANY OF THEM if they can make the major leagues CLEANLY, they would all give a RESOUNDING YES. Ask them if they want to be a minor leaguer the rest of their lives.....you will get a resounding NO. My kids ask me the for the truth...and I told them. They ALSO know that it is illegal to use them and that are their age, there ARE side effects that carry consequences...again, they are not dumb and they KNOW they are not getting a "go do steroids because I approve of it" speech. I give them ALOT more credit for comprehending what my answer was than you do.
 
I neither gave nor withheld credit from your kids. I was disagreeing with your attitude. By not speaking out strongly against the use of steroids you're in essence enabling them and giving them an excuse to experiment. So what you're saying (and this is so bizarre to me) is that we can't fault the kids for following their "urges, hormones, desires")? I'm simply at a loss for words here. Where is the leadership and guidance that adults are supposed to provide? I expected more ....

And that is YOUR opinion. I spoke to BOTH the AD and the principles because I have knew there might be some miss understanding or backlash of what I said. I told them EXACTLY what I told my kids. They were not happy with the wording, but they knew I told the THE TRUTH. I didn't sugarcoat nor lie....just the truth.

Tell me, seeing that you brought up the rapist analogy, what do YOU think triggers a rapist? Do you think it is triggered by a song? A commercial for McDonald's? Or maybe an and ad in a magazine about Directv? It is
their urges/hormones/desires.

No need for apologies, I give my kids ALOT more credit then you give them, they knew where I was coming from. They knew I was not agreeing with steroids as much as I can see WHY they would do it.
 

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