Finally!

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Please reply by conversation.
Dee, when I arrived home from work MeTV and all RTV channels were still gone from yesterday. At 9PM tonight I switched back to AMC3 and found that both MeTV and the RTV channels are back at full signal strength. Please check to see if MeTV returned for you as well.
 
BAH................. :mad:


Nothing...... I get NASA like nobody's business but that's it.

This dish is a piece of junk.. Or the lnb. Or both. :mad:
 
The dish isnt junk. I have 3 of them
It probably isnt the LNB

the dish isnt peaked properly.
A couple pages back you showed a screenshot of NASA and it showed 66% quality on the Coolsat. Note that 63/64 is the minimum threshold so you're barely above that on a good signal. On my Coolsat 5000 (same receiver pretty much) NASA shows 73/74% with the 6 footer. So you're very close but just require some tweaking. Try and twisting the LNB a little bit. Push it in towards the dish to optimize signal and minimize interference.
 
Ok, here's what I think is going on..

The photo on the WS website shows this dish with the lnb arms attached to the outer most edge of the dish.

First off, when I was putting it together, I found no holes on the edge.
Also, the tabs on the ends of the arms where not bent in a way to facilitate that sort of assembly.

I tried it though and even if you were to attach the arms in the way shown in this photo, the lnb would be like less than ONE FOOT from the face of the dish. There is no way possible that is correct.

Obviously they are showing a photo of a different but similar model of dish.

There are slots on the sides of the panels that DO facilitate mounting the arms in the manner that I did, as you can see in my photo of my dish. It also holds the lnb out away from the dish at a distance that LOOKS like it would be proper.

That said, they list some focal point stuff for the dish. I ~ASSUME~ it is the information for the dish they are displaying in their photo. That dish is not the same as the dish I have.

DUH......

It says the focal thing is .38 OK, fine.. So I put the lnb mark to "38". Right??

BUT, being that my dish is DIFFERENT than the dish they display on their website, I ~ASSUME~ the focal stuff is different too.

But, what to set it to? I saw some very complicated math BS where you have to measure all sorts of things and then do some long, drawn out, complicated math to get the setting. I can't do that.

Does anyone know what I should set the lnb marks too for MY dish?
Please help me here, spare me the misery of math and trial & error...

I'm floundering in the surf at low tide now on this thing. I don't know what I'm doing so all I can do is just randomly move things around, troupe back and forth in and out of the house, up and down the ladder all hours of the night, all in vain.

There are so many variables involved in this thing that it's just about impossible.

I can't work with that STUPID birddog meter. It does not work, it does not find ANYTHING, it rarely if ever has actually told me I was on a satellite and I have only once or twice been able to use it to adjust a dish. I use it as a power supply for the squealy meter, I set the skew and tilt on a dish according the what I read on the internet then turn it east and west until it peaks. It usually is very close to perfect. And even then, the birddog does not recognize the satellite.

So. I need a REAL meter. I'm going to sock away $100 a month and save up for something that WORKS. I want a meter that will tell me what satellite I am on even when I have no clue at all. I want it to tell me to move the dish up or down or left or right or which direction to turn the lnb.

And I do not want one that is targeted to the Dishnet and Directv installers. Like the birddog. Their files for it are apparently badly out of date because none of them ever work. They probably only keep up the pizza dish files and for the newest model birddog, not like this old timer model I have. No wonder that dude pedaled it off on me so cheap.. :mad:

I'm also going to get one of those little hand held tuner/TV things.
I can't drag a TV and a tuner and all that nonsense out into the yard every time I need to do something! That's just nuts. I have to come up with a better way of doing this because this is extremely frustrating!

Oh, and the coolsat? The stupid meter on it goes away if you move the dish so then you have to press the remote buttons over and over. It won't keep the meter displayed. VERY annoying.

C-band is about to get the better of me.. I'm getting close to loosening the bolts and pushing the d**n thing off the pole and running it over with my riding mower a few dozen times! :mad::rant:
 

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Hi Dee_Ann. Glad to see you got your system working :) I think you're onto something with the arms not being in the right spot. The correct focal distance is important for proper operation. In your last post the pic for the dish specs said the focus length for that dish should be 682mm which is about 26.8 inches. If you measure from the center of the dish to the feedhorn is it 26.8 inches? If it isn't then probably the arms are in the wrong spot or they aren't bent properly. I seem to recall a while back ( a year maybe ??) someone on this forum had problems with the arms on their dish. I think it was that the wrong length arms were shipped but I'm not 100% sure. I'll try and find the thread. here's one for the larger size dish and he had problems with the arms. see the product weaknesses section where it mentions the arms and look at pic jul_21. http://www.satelliteguys.us/fta-mpe...iew-ws-international-ws24095-240cm-prime.html my bad wrong size dish. it looks like your arms are where they should be. here's another thread for the 1.8m dish http://www.satelliteguys.us/228237-6-foot-dish-install-9.html
 
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refresher course

This thread is mandatory reading for anyone assembling that dish:
http://www.satelliteguys.us/free-air-fta-discussion/228237-6-foot-dish-install.html

In post 31, mr3p describes focal length, and LNB arm location
At post 43, Corrado covers a clever way to pre-align the scalar/LNBF to the center of the dish with some 2½ inch PVC.
There are lots more discussions and tons of pictures on page 6 & 7, concerning how to align the motor to push the dish reliably.
 
There is no question on the LNB support arms. If they were not in the right place you would get nothing. This dish does work.
 

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Ok, so I got frustrated with this stupid thing. I can get NASA really, really well.
I show a signal for MeTV, the signal strength is 67 but the screen is black and silent and after a few minutes it pops up a warning that there is no video... DUH??? ORLY??

So. That's not getting me anywhere.

I went back in the house and decided to move the dish around manually and try to find stuff by sheer pot luck.

Guess what? I DID.........

I found, via blind scan a number of satellites and I was able to identify them. I even found some unlisted channels that I can't mention here.
But on each satellite I would only find a few channels, far short of the large number of channels I see in "The List"..

I have the polarity right, I am sure of that.

Like right now, I found Galaxy 16 @ 99. I'm watching WVXF right now. thisTV is playing Mr. Ed and the banner says "Caribbean WVXF"
The picture is clear and sharp and no gleep glop glitches or blocks. It just works.

So the basic thing I'm saying is, as I move the dish from east to west, I am finding satellites and channels. The number of channels I am finding is very low but I am finding channels. So I believe I can safely ~assume~ that the dish is lined up right on the "arc", right?

I mean, I believe that the satellites are lower in the sky to the east and west and higher to the south so if you draw a line from one to the other it's a big arch. Somehow the satellite dish has to tilt itself up and down as it moves east and west, to my understanding. How it does that, is beyond me. The mechanical magic of doing that escapes me. People far, far smarter than I could ever hope to be designed all this stuff.

Anyway, considering that I am finding stuff simply by moving the dish with the remote and blind scanning at random, with no clue at all as to what I'm doing or where the stinking thing is pointed, I think it is on the arch properly or pretty darn close to what it should be.

So this has to be either that the dish is just plain and simple too small or the lnb is junk.

I just can not figure out what to set the lnb to. It can be rotated 360 degrees and it slides in and out of the mount and there are a number of settings on that that I don't understand.

Oh, and I measured, the lnb mount ring is approximately 26 1/2" from the face of the dish. It was hard to get a precise measurement as I was balancing on the ladder, slapping mosquitoes, with a flashlight in my mouth American Pickers style.

Does MeTV come in on any other satellite that AMC 3?? That one is a dud for me. I don't believe I'm going to get it with this 6' dish. The 10' dish should take care of it.

Oh and I figured out I could put the Coolsat video into a capture card in my desktop work pc where I can make screen shots of it.. :)
I forgot that was in there.
 

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OK, Dee-Ann, I am going to try AGAIN to get you to tweak your dish. The unfortunate thing here is that you may be reading what ever people are trying to tell you, but you are picking out ONLY what you want to hear, and going from there.

The fact that you are close to the edge on aligning your dish IS helpful, but you aren't there yet.

FORGET about the meter you have, it is NOT "stupid" as you claim. It is incapable of thinking, so therefor cannot qualify as "stupid." (Advise from my Mom many many years ago, we would get punished for using that word in arguments as kids, and people are not stupid, just uneducated)

Anyway, OK, for some reason after reading over and over how much easier it is to take a TV and receiver out to the dish, whatever the reason, you can't or wont do that. Then look at it as a two person job. The next time you have your dad over, have HIM go out to the dish and gently push the dish down and you watch the meter, if it reads a higher signal, then your entire dish it too far west, if the signal improves when you pull it UP, you are to far east and need to move your entire dish assembly west. I have mentioned that TWICE or more in this thread, you haven't responded to that suggestion. When you push or pull the dish, use light pressure, inch pounds not foot pounds. There is probably more than enough 'give' to move the dish up and down without damaging the dish, gently pull it up or push it down. I can't stress enough how important this part of the job is for tweaking your dish.

You also (after tweaking your dish alignment) THEN and only then, need to climb the ladder and move the lnb in and out of the ring, there is no way to avoid this. The 38 you mentioned several times has NO RELATION to the numbers on the side of the lnb, so forget them. Start by moving the lnb so that the bottom is flush with the bottom of the adjustment ring, the ring is the part where your four bolts are connected to the arms. If that improves or doesn't improve your signal, try moving it out away from the dish, the lnb, not the arms. Those numbers are about 1/4 inch apart, try at the lowest setting you can get the lnb mounted and check your signal, if needed move the lnb out away from the dish one of those 1/4 inch marks. This will take some time, again, it is a two person job if you don't have your tv and receiver out at the dish, or a LOT of walking and frustration if you are alone and the TV is in the house. We have ALL been there and done that.

Iceburg and several others have told you that they have that same dish, you seem to be missing that, it is NOT the dish at fault, it is the alignment, you have been told that several times.

Also, think about this. You have a Coolsat, and you know yourself that the meter will read 63 or thereabouts when a signal gets dropped. You need a stronger signal than you have, you need to IMPROVE that signal or you will be disappointed all the way around.

You seem to have an idea that the bigger dish will be easier, well, let me tell ya, Dee, if you don't get this one right, as light as it is, you will have the same problems with the 10 footer.

I am sure you don't like a lot of what I am telling you, but let's go back to that first night, remember how you were watching METV, then the next day it was gone. You went out and checked on the dish and found loose bolts? Well there is the biggest clue, you were on it somehow, or very close, but when you tightened the bolts, you misaligned the dish (again) and you haven't fully recovered yet from that.

Alignment FIRST, then start playing with the lnb, THEN watch TV.

Believe me, we have ALL been where you are now. Learn from your mistakes and move on, the next one WILL be easier, but only if you learn from this one.

By the way, Dee, when you are frustrated, walk away from the darn thing. Come back to it when you are feeling better and start fresh, do NOT work on this when you are frustrated.

As far as the Caribbean mux is concerned, when I tried putting an analog LNB on my 1.2m (4 foot) Patriot dish, I was able to get the channels you referred too, the CW, NBC, FOX, and THIS. Those are strong channels, but receiving them does NOT automatically mean that your dish is aligned properly. I got lucky then and it really got me excited about C Band. That was what I remembered about this hobby from back in the 90's, where I could watch programming that locally came on all at the same time, having that MUX gives me the chance to watch programs that I like from the East coast three hours earlier than they were on locally, so I didn't have to miss my favorites.

We have been supporting your efforts in all of this, most of us feel like you are part of our extended families, now is NOT the time to get frustrated enough to want to run over your dish with your mower, and before you do that, offer the dish to someone here so it can be put to good use. You have come SO far, don't stop now.

The goal here, Dee, is this is a HOBBY, nothing else. The benefits are great. There are some of us that go out to our dishes on a daily, or weekly, or monthly basis to re-tweak our dishes, those are the hard core hobbyist, they are searching for signals that you and I will probably never see. For us that are at the lower end of this hobby, we set it and forget it. Occasionally a wind storm or something else may miss-align the dish and we have to go out and struggle with it, and then we sit back and watch TV until the next mishap. It's supposed to be enjoyment, not something that frustrates you. So sit back, have some tea, relax, and then when you are fully relaxed, go tackle that SOB and master it, rather that it mastering you.

Come on ... you can do it.

Photto
 
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BTW, did you read that because of you, and some advise that I gave you, I went out and re-tweaked my OWN dish? Well, I want to say again a big "THANK YOU" for starting this thread. Because of advise I gave you, I went out to the dish, or rather this time I sent Phottoette out to the dish and tried the push/pull thing, and I re-aligned my own dish. Now instead of having that dish sitting on the Caribbean MUX on 99W, we park it normally on the bird that gives us METV and FamilyTV, then about 4:00 PM local we switch over to FOX Caribbean to watch Law and Order. Here I thought MY dish was aligned, but because of advise I gave you, we now have a much better and stable viewing for several more channels than I thought were possible. And that's with a dish I have been happy with for well over two years now.

Being "NEAR" the arc, and "ON" the arc are two entirely different things.

And now I am getting ready to put up one of the other 1.2m dishes I have JUST FOR THE CARIBBEAN MUX. That way we can leave the big dish on the METV and MyFamily without having to move it back and forth. But that is weeks away still. I have to get over various physical ailments first. Tomorrow I go in for my Lythotipsy to remove the kidney stones, then maybe I can get back to work and start feeling better about my own self.

(oops, did I actually say that out loud?)

Photto
 
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Dee...............I have that same Bargain Dish, I didn't bother using the number scale on the LNB at all. Through trial and error I set it.
From the back side of the Dish, run a Tape Measure thru the center hole up to the face of the LNB. It should be about 28 1/2 " ( from the crossbar behind the dish to LNB face)
And the Support arms are in the correct location for THIS Dish.
 
Dang, I just reopened this thread before submitting a post I was composing, and Phottoman just covered everything I spent an hour writing about!

I hope you all don't mind if I submit it anyways. I feel the need to contribute.

Cheers!
 
Hi Dee Ann,

It seems you are getting a bit frustrated at your stuff. You say you are getting signals and scanning in channels, but it seems some channels just don't quite come in for you.

Now, I may not have been paying 100% attention to all of the posts in this thread, so I'm probably repeating other ideas and methods.

I'm sure it's been suggested already, but when you do lock onto a strong signal, that's the time to push and nudge the dish to see if the signal can get any better. If it does, adjust the mounts accordingly. Then do the same again with a weaker TP on the same sat.
The best way to do this is with your STB and TV set up outside where you can see it from the dish.
Quite often, the wife and I will use the intercom feature of our cordless phone, while I'm outside with the wrenches..

Once the aim is peaked, it's now time to tweak the LNB. The focal distance prescribed for your particular dish is basically (I feel) a guideline to get you in the ballpark of catching a noticeable and usable signal.
With the stb still showing the signal meter on the TV, begin rotating the LNB left and right and then closer/further to/from the dish while watching the meter.
Now, understandably, reaching for the LNB puts you in the signal's path, and on a 6' dish it may fade enough to not show on the meter. With the LNB snug enough to stay put, but loose enough to move, you can trial and error it while ducking out of the beam path. Max out the signal for skew, and then do the focal distance.
When you find the best spot, keep an eye on the meter while tightening the LNB, as snugging up the screws will cause some movement, that means a wee bit more trial and error while tightening.

Tedious as it may seem, this will get the dish performing nicely. Once this is accomplished, the next task is to make sure the dish tracks the arc properly. This all done at the mounts, and that's another story I bet you're already familiar with. lol

Once again, my apologies for being repetitive, but I want to get you happy too!

Good luck, and have fun too! --Kev--



P.S. Sorry to hear you have mosquitoes (already?), we're still looking at blankets of white stuff, here in Northern Ontario!:mad:
 
Guys,

thank you for your very excellent advice. I have turned in for the night, I'm on my iPhone so I will keep it short for now.

When I get up this afternoon I'll try your suggestions.
As for dragging a tv out back, I don't have one that I cam take out there without going to a lot of trouble.

So, I purchased a little 7" LCD tv online this morning just for this. But until it arrives I'll have to do without.

I'm also thinking that, well am I not supposed to FIRST lock the dish onto the true south satellite ??

Maybe I'm having trouble because I'm skipping steps?

I accidentally found the metv satellite and all the steps went out the window right along with caution.

Ok, got to get some sleep. I'll try again this afternoon.

Thanks!! :)
 
Hi again DeeAnn,

Locking onto your true-south sat is part of setting up your polar mounts to track the arc.

Once you get the dish and lnb "as one" , then work on tracking the sat-belt.

Have a good rest, there's still much to do.
 
Ok, here's what I think is going on..


... I can't work with that STUPID birddog meter. It does not work, it does not find ANYTHING, it rarely if ever has actually told me I was on a satellite and I have only once or twice been able to use it to adjust a dish. I use it as a power supply for the squealy meter, I set the skew and tilt on a dish according the what I read on the internet then turn it east and west until it peaks. It usually is very close to perfect. And even then, the birddog does not recognize the satellite.

So. I need a REAL meter. I'm going to sock away $100 a month and save up for something that WORKS. I want a meter that will tell me what satellite I am on even when I have no clue at all. I want it to tell me to move the dish up or down or left or right or which direction to turn the lnb.

And I do not want one that is targeted to the Dishnet and Directv installers. Like the birddog. Their files for it are apparently badly out of date because none of them ever work. They probably only keep up the pizza dish files and for the newest model birddog, not like this old timer model I have. No wonder that dude pedaled it off on me so cheap.. :mad:
:mad::rant:
I have had both a BIRDOG 4.0 Plus and a SUPERBUDDY 29. Sold the Birddog to a dtv/dishnet ONLY installer, and as you say, that's what it was made for.

The SuperBuddy is expensive new ($800), but can be purchased on Craigslist for a lot less. It tells you what satellite you are locked onto, when you don't have a clue...

Several times I was locked onto a sat only to find after doing a ID verification, that it failed. Then I hit the 'scan', and it checks both east and west of where you were until it finds and verifys a lock on the satellite you are actually on.

I'm sold. (incidentally, the birddog will work fine if you change the BER settings as suggested by others in this record breaking thread...)

On another subject, I suggest you measure the dish diameter and depth and give those numbers to allow someone to calculate the F/d for you....

and on still another subject..... your frustration and pain is felt (believe me) by anyone who has spent countless hrs out there in inclement weather trying to find a satellite to no avail!
 
I'm also thinking that, well am I not supposed to FIRST lock the dish onto the true south satellite ??

Maybe I'm having trouble because I'm skipping steps?

Finding your true south satellite is the first thing you did and should have done, but it IS sort of arbitrary on what you do with that info once found. After all, once found it's hard to loose, it's important that you locate the true south for your location since that will be the peak of your arc, everything after that is just tweaking to insure that you aren't off by as much as a half degree. And believe me, a half degree off in either direction is a big thing.

This is why I kept insisting that you do the pull/push test.

Once you find your true south, and it can be different for everyone, even living as close as a couple of miles apart, then you are on your way to realizing the value of your entire system.

Imagine you only had the compass you were using to locate your true south. It is a magnetic compass, it can vary widely from spot to spot even in your own back yard, so it is only a STARTING point on where to aim your dish. Then there is the difference between True and Magnetic South. You will often see both mentioned in whatever place you went to to find where to point your dish. And as much as 7 to 10 degrees difference between them. If you look again at dish pointer, you will see that they mention BOTH in trying to help you point your dish.

Now, since you probably don't have $50K to spend on instruments that will guide you in finding YOUR true south, we aim the dish as well as we can, and then try tweaking the dish to line it up as accurately as possible.

THAT'S why I kept telling you about the push/pull test.

Since there is at least one station you can pull in from that satellite, HQx (which ever number it is, I don't remember), put your dish aimed as well as you can on that satellite, find the strongest channel, do the push/pull and adjust your dish as needed. THEN, scan your satellite again, and find a weaker station and again do the push/pull test, and readjust your dish. Once you have the signal AS STRONG as you can get it, THEN lock everything down and do the test one last time. If there is no change, at this point you can rest assured you are DEAD on that satellite, and you shouldn't need to adjust the dish again unless something catastrophic happens that really whips your dish around.

NOW you can go to your lnb and start tweaking that. Rotate in in either direction, it really won't matter now that you have it lined up properly for horizontal, everything else will follow suite. Do this in very small increments, don't over shoot your goal by rotating it too far.

Once you have THAT as well as can be done, THEN is the time to start adjusting the depth of your setting for the LNB, in and out. Start with the bottom of the LNB about level, this is an arbitrary place, it doesn't have to be exact, but start either in as far as you can go, or out as far as you can go. Somewhere in the middle will be the BEST place for the LNB. Once you have that done, lock it in place but NOT TOO TIGHT. You can 'dimple' the LNB if you put that screw in too tight, then you'll have to turn the LNB around 90 degrees and start all over. Also, you may want to shim the LNB so it won't move as you tighten the bolt/screw that holds it in place. I had to do that. As I slightly tightened the LNB it would wander and tilt. Be careful, a misplaced LNB will look like heck on your TV and ruin all your hard work.

Something to be aware of here, on the LNB, do ONE thing at a time, first adjust the skew so that is as high a signal as you can get, THEN adjust the depth of the LNB so that you get as high a signal as you can. Do this ONE step at a time. Trying to adjust both the skew and depth can really confuse you, so take it slow, even if you get a weeks worth of exercise climbing that ladder up and down all in one day. THIS will pay great dividends in the long run.

One last thing, something to look forward to. You have mentioned hearing people talking about the "S2" signals coming from that satellite. All the RTV/RTN (never know what to call them) channels are S2, your coolsat will not get those. It won't even let you know they are there, so forget about them for the time being. You also mentioned wanting to get an Openbox since you have read so much about them. Well, once you get the Openbox all you will have to do is disconnect the Coolsat by turning it off from the back, unplug it and disconnect any connections going to your TV (or whatever you have connected), then connect the Openbox then plug it in and turn it on, scan your satellites and bingo, no more re-aligning to be done. And you will LOVE what you get from this satellite then.

I hope you'll let us know exactly how all this works FOR you. Don't get discouraged, you are SO close, it's JUST a matter of tweaking now, nothing more, you are almost there.

Oh, one last little thing. You don't really ~need~ a bird dog meter for this, once you get the dish working, we can guide you on some fun ways of finding and locating satellites in the sky. Lets go back to trying to keep it simple, do ONE step at a time, slowly, that way you won't get too confused.

And all of this is just a prelude to doing all of this again, but in more sensible steps for the big dish.

Photto
 
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That said, they list some focal point stuff for the dish. I ~ASSUME~ it is the information for the dish they are displaying in their photo. That dish is not the same as the dish I have.

DUH......

It says the focal thing is .38 OK, fine.. So I put the lnb mark to "38". Right??

BUT, being that my dish is DIFFERENT than the dish they display on their website, I ~ASSUME~ the focal stuff is different too.

But, what to set it to? I saw some very complicated math BS where you have to measure all sorts of things and then do some long, drawn out, complicated math to get the setting. I can't do that.
trial and error. No number is universal. Its all trial and error to obtain the best signal

Oh, and the coolsat? The stupid meter on it goes away if you move the dish so then you have to press the remote buttons over and over. It won't keep the meter displayed. VERY annoying.
go to antenna setup, then manual scan. Once you get a signal locked you can go into manual scan and the meter stays up until you turn the machine off or back out of the menus

You dont need a meter. I've aimed dishes for 8 years with just a small TV and the receivers meter :)
 
I don't think she comes out 'till the sun goes down...
... then goes to bed just before dawn.

Let me see now... somehow, that sounds familiar. - ;)s
 
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