My first BUD

[blx286]

Well, actually my first dish and I know nothing about setting them up. I found a 10' Unimesh on Craigslist and brought it home. Got it planted and the post is plumb. Needs some TLC, but I thought I would do that after I got it set back up. It also came with a Toshiba TRX-2220 receiver. I have a ton of questions.

I bought an Openbox, Gbox and DMX741 to get the electronics updated. The DMX741 hasn't come in yet, so I am wondering if I can use the LNB that is on it now? If I use the existing LNB, do I need to use the old receiver for the polorator? Or can I pick up some channels without the polorator wired up?

I am also reading up on Footprints by Dish Size - Adjusting the Polar Mount for Prime Focus Antenna - C/Ku-Band Satellite Systems - Tuning, Tracking, Azimuth, Elevation, Declination Angles, F/D Ratio, Focal Distance, Inclinometer, LNB/Feedhorn Assembly, Actuator Assembly, C to see if I can get this pointed in the right direction. I will be getting a inclinometer tomorrow to help with that.

I replaced the coax with RG6. I was also able to move the actuator with a battery, so it's not seized. But I don't know what the travel is, or should be. Should I initially set this up pointing true South and then work on setting up the motor?

Thanks in advance for the help,
Tim

 

[KE4EST]

Congrats on getting the bud. You will love this hobby. Yep start with your true south satellite and work from there. Yeah you could play around with it a little without the polar rotor hooked up. Just get it turned to horizontal or vertical and look at lyngsat for a hot transponder on the polatiy you have it on for your true south sat and see if you can find it. If you have never set one up before, it can be a little bit of a pain until you start understanding everything. So don't get discouraged and read, read, read, and ask questions. You will figure it out.

 

[KE4EST]

This is of course if the one on it is working. So don't drive your self to drink if you don't get anywhere until you get the new one.

 

[FaT Air]

If I use the existing LNB, do I need to use the old receiver for the polorator?

If you want both polaraties, yes.

Or can I pick up some channels without the polorator wired up?

Yes, but only the polarity that the feed is on. It depends on the position of the probe in the feehorn. If your "south satellite is directly south, it will be perfectly vertical, for vertical polarity and horixontal for, well, horizontal polarities.

Note: the new FTA receivers control a new style LNBF polarity selection via the voltage supplied to the LNBF. 13v for vertical polarity and 18v for horizontal. That can pose a problem with most LNB's designed for use on a servo polarity controlled feed. Most LNB's don't work that well, or at all, with only 13v. They are most happy with 18 to 24v. So for this to work, the FTA receiver has to have horizontal polarity selected. but the feed(servo) can be adjusted for either polarity.

Should I initially set this up pointing true South and then work on setting up the motor?

That's the first step. adjusting the elevation, on your "south satellite" With the actuator, move the dish so it's at it's highest, and measure the angles of the polar mount and that of the dish. The difference in angles is the "declination". use the modified "declination ofset" angle on the second chart on this page. Footprints by Dish Size - Latitude Declination Chart - C/Ku-Band Satellite Listing and adjust as necessary.
Set your polar angle to your latitude + a fraction, as shown on the same chart and rotate the mount on the pole to get Q on your south sat, then adjust, fine tune, the latitude angle for Max Q reading on the receiver. (you must be monitoring an active transponder)
The azimuth is adjusted away from there, towards the sides of the "arc".
A while ago, I simplified the BUD alignment procedure in the www.satelliteguys.us/c-band-satellite-discussion/222234-bud-manual.html It may help to answer some questions. As should the attached picture.
BTW, I used a servo feedhorn with LNB for many years. Also used a Toshiba 2200 to move the dish and power the LNB. I don't regret upgrading to a LNBF and a Gbox to move the dish.

 

[turbosat]

blx, if the dish you found was operating in the past, and it wasn't very far away from your location, you might not have to worry with making too many changes. If you took the dish down off the mounting ring, and removed the mount from the old pole, the mount probably will be close to what it should be for your place. I've moved a couple that were within 10-15miles from my place and only had to re-assemble the dish to the mount, then locate the north/south axis (by rotating the dish&mount on the pole). Won't know until you try! Of course if you bought the dish in pieces, it will be a good experience to do a ground-up install, you'll gain information on just how it all works. It's really not that difficult to do.

 

[brex2001]

Just a tip: in the 3rd pic your actuator motor is down. It should be in the up position to keep water from collecting inside.

 

[blx286]

Thanks for all the replies. I picked the dish up about 120 miles from where I live. I am in North Texas and we are pretty flat up here, so I thought the angles would be about the same. I looked at dishpointer and swung it into what I thought was the true South position.

I then got way ahead of myself yesterday bringing the receiver and a tv out to the dish and trying to find a sat. Didn't get anywhere and wasted a bunch of daylight. I'll see if I can make better progress today.

A while ago, I simplified the BUD alignment procedure in the www.satelliteguys.us/c-band-satellite-discussion/222234-bud-manual.html It may help to answer some questions. As should the attached picture.

Thanks for the manual and the pic, I will read up on that.

Just a tip: in the 3rd pic your actuator motor is down. It should be in the up position to keep water from collecting inside.

I noticed that last night when I was looking at the the pics I took before I removed the dish. Thanks for catching that.

Tim

 

[guacharaca]

I am in the same situation as you with the exact same dish except that I already have a farm of ku dishes. On the BUD I was frustrated with not getting any signal until I went through and checked all the dimensions. I found that the previous owner was a full inch out on the focal depth. I made the change and it was a rewarding moment when that quality bar red-lined when it hit its first signal. My motor also worked, but I pulled it all apart and cleaned a lot of rust and dirt off the long threaded shaft. Had I left it I am sure that those white nylon gears at the end would be stripped in no time.

 

[Lone Gunman]

As mentioned up the page, I wouldn't fool with any adjustments on elevation or declination until you get your "stuff" together.

FYI, when I moved my 10ft dish from my old house to the new one, all I did was park the dish on the west limit, moved it and connected the receiver back up to it then went to my most west satellite. Then went out to the dish and moved it on the post (left and right) until I peaked the signal and believe or not it stayed that way for about 9 years before I went to tweaking on it further. And to be honest, it wasn't "that" far off! Of course your 150 mile move may be different but still I wouldn't expect it to be too far off.

 

[blx286]

Made some progress today but had to stop due to rain. I won't complain since we are in a drought.

Got the cables pulled, got the motor turned around right, got some pics and more questions. I went out to dishpointer.com to try again and see if I was pointed in the right direction. I have a stupid question. On dishpointer for a motorized system, there is a true south. So I am trying to aim at true south not a specific sat, right?

Cleaned up the actuator a little, took the motor off and cleaned the rust and crud out of the bottom. However, I can only get it to extend about 6 - 8", then it stops. It should extend out close to 24" right? I need it to extend all the way out before I can line up on the south, right?

Took the cover off the motor and there was a scrap of paper in there. So am I reading it right, do I have a reed switch?

Thanks for your patience,
Tim

 

[brex2001]

Yeah that thing underneath the round magnet is your reed switch. The motor is a Venture/HTS & parts are very available.
Heck, I think I've got a spare 24" motor. If you can't get yours moving further(clean up the actuator tube first) give me a PM & I'll mail you one. Motor that is.

 

[blx286]

Thanks for the offer, I may take you up on it. I'll start with the tube and see what happens. After wading around on Google for awhile, I sent an email to Venture to see if I could get instructions on tearing it down.

So I'm kinda on hold until I can get that actuator to extend, right?

Thanks,
Tim

 

[toucan-man]

So I'm kinda on hold until I can get that actuator to extend, right?

Thanks,
Tim

You can loosen the clamp, and slide the entire actuator to move the dish to wherever. For now.

 

[guacharaca]

You probably have some dirt or rust in the threads. Take the three short bolts out at the base of the long cylindrical chrome cover. Mine are tamper-proof bolts. Rotate that cover off until the full threaded rod is exposed. You then will be able to see if you need to take a wire brush to the threaded rod. I used a wire brush on a grinding tool.

Having no wire on terminal 3 confirms you have a reed switch. It is a "normally open contact" (dry contacts) that provides a pulse signal. The same technology is now used in the new gas and electric meters to send the consumption readings over the internet.

 

[blx286]

You can loosen the clamp, and slide the entire actuator to move the dish to wherever. For now.

Guess I really overlooked the obvious on that one

Thanks for the tip.

 

[blx286]

You probably have some dirt or rust in the threads. Take the three short bolts out at the base of the long cylindrical chrome cover. Mine are tamper-proof bolts. Rotate that cover off until the full threaded rod is exposed. You then will be able to see if you need to take a wire brush to the threaded rod. I used a wire brush on a grinding tool.

Yeah, I hope it something simple like built up crud. I've got to take a better look and see if I have those bolts. I emailed Venture Manufacturing (in case it was one of theirs) and they sent me the following instructions:

Check limit switch to see if the extend switch is activated. This could be cause for not fully extending. If not see attached. To disassemble actuator remove pin #6 and actuator will come apart. Align pin with knockout holes. Remove 1/4" pin with punch. Check screw for rust. Clean and lube.

Not sure if I can post the parts diagram here, but they sent me one that shows the pin they are referring to. I should have enough daylight on Friday to take everything apart.

Thanks,
Tim

 

[blx286]

Ok, I still have something wrong. Can someone point me in the right direction?

Here is the info from dishpointer.com
Your Location
Latitude: 32.6001°
Longitude: -96.2877°

Satellite Data
Name: True South / True North
Distance: 36955km

Dish Setup Data
Motor Latitude: 32.6°
Declination Angle: 5.3°
Dish Elevation: 35°
Elevation: 52.1°
Azimuth (true): 180.0°
Azimuth (magn.): 176.4°

My actuator tube appears to be seized, so I am trying to aim at Galaxy 19, and here is the info I have:

Satellite Data
Name: 97W GALAXY 19 (G-19)
Distance: 36955km

Elevation: 52.1°
Azimuth (true): 181.3°
Azimuth (magn.): 177.7°
LNB Skew [?]: 1.1°

Best I can tell, I have the dish pointed between 177° and 178°. My elevation is set to 53°, but I get nothing. I manually slid the actuator, where I think it should be. I think this puts me on zenith, see pic 1. This puts the mouth straight up at 90°, right?

I'm also not sure if I have my openbox set wrong, see pic 3. It shows 36% signal, even without coax connected. With the coax connected and LNB power on, it shows 45%. But the strength doesn't change regardless of where I move the dish. I'm not sure what TP info I should be putting in here, but I have tried several and nothing changes.

I think pic 4 shows my declination angle. And now that I am posting and thinking back, I didn't check this angle.

Aiming the dish is more important than the actuator right now, but I still have see how to take this tube apart. The motor will spin if not connected to the tube. If it's connected to the tube, it tries to move the actuator, but can't. I don't see any bolts to take out or any pressed in pin. The side of the tube has crimps in it that look like they hold that square piece of metal in place.

So I'm not sure if my angles are all off, the openbox isn't set right or that original LNB is not set or working correctly. Or it could be all of the above Sorry for the long post, but any help would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks,
Tim

 

[FaT Air]

I'm also not sure if I have my openbox set wrong, see pic 3. It shows 36% signal, even without coax connected. With the coax connected and LNB power on, it shows 45%. But the strength doesn't change regardless of where I move the dish.

That's normal. Signal will increase as soon as Q is locked.

Best I can tell, I have the dish pointed between 177° and 178°. My elevation is set to 53°

But the satellite your trying to get is at 181.3°. (think you have to twist the mount on the pole to the west a bit) Are you sure the elevation is 53°?

think pic 4 shows my declination angle. And now that I am posting and thinking back, I didn't check this angle.

That is your Latitude angle, set to your latitude. (32.6°) SEE picture I attached in my first post. The dish should be declination angle different. Set to the "Modified" declination angle on the secong chart here>>Footprints by Dish Size - Latitude Declination Chart - C/Ku-Band Satellite Listing Study the picture I posted earlier. Those are the angles to start with, with the dish at it's highest, to locate the "south sat".
NOTE_ It may be easier to measure the dish face with a straight edge vertical across it. Be aware that you may be measuring the angle opposite, I.E: satellite/dish elevation 90° from the dish face(extreme) angle.
These angles are set with the dish pushed to it's highest with the actuator, (as shown in your pic 1)
Then, pan the sky by slowly moving the mount and dish. (don't adjust the actuator) If you don't get a Q reading, slightly adjust the latitude angle, and repeat and align for max Q reading.
From this point on - never adjust the latitude angle again. It is ONLY adjusted at "true south"
Then use the actuator to find satelllites away from south. and adjust the mount "twist" (Azimuth adjustment) and actuator for max Q
EDIT< Added calculations:
Latitude: 32.6001° Longitude: -96.2877°
Modified devlination angle (closest lat is 33°) 4.79°
I'd shoot for an initial Latitude angle 33.00°
Latitude + declination = 33 + 4.8 (rounded) 37.8 (extreme angle in my picture posted earlier)
Satellite elevation = 90° minus 37.8° = 52.2°
Very close to what you've got in your calculations. Name: 97W GALAXY 19 (G-19)
Distance: 36955km
Elevation: 52.1° close enuf to begin.

 

[brex2001]

<My actuator tube appears to be seized, so I am trying to aim at Galaxy 19, and here is the info I have:>

In the 3rd pic your LNB LO frequency is 5150-5750. Change it to 5150. Then go into your TP menu & add this strong TP: 3920H26000 if its not already there. That should help the peaking for due south satellite.

 

[blx286]

EDIT< Added calculations:
Latitude: 32.6001° Longitude: -96.2877°
Modified devlination angle (closest lat is 33°) 4.79°
I'd shoot for an initial Latitude angle 33.00°
Latitude + declination = 33 + 4.8 (rounded) 37.8 (extreme angle in my picture posted earlier)
Satellite elevation = 90° minus 37.8° = 52.2°
Very close to what you've got in your calculations. Name: 97W GALAXY 19 (G-19)
Distance: 36955km
Elevation: 52.1° close enuf to begin.

Thanks for looking everything over. I finally got it yesterday.

Math was not my strongest subject in school and the angles were confusing me on which direction to hold the inclinometer. It also looked as if I changed the extreme elevation, that would change the dish elevation (labeled in your pic).

At any rate, it appears that I was just pointed the wrong direction. I kept all the angles where they were. After checking them, they were actually where they needed to be (or real close). I swung the dish East about 1/4 inch on the mount and my signal intensity jumped from 45 to 86. And the signal quality jumped to 71 percent.

Got a blind scan on G-19 which was cool. Picked up a little more than 100 channels, but most show as scrambled. Anyway, I got something so that's a start. Now I need to figure out how to take that actuator apart and clean it up.

Thanks again for the help.