3 receivers, 6 LNB's, 3 4x4 and 3 4x1 Setup Questions

[hd fan]

I could not find the exact answer after searching a while.

1) The 4x4 are powered , power inserter to port 1 , Will the 4x4 still have power if the receiver switches to an LNB on another 4x4?. I mean does the DiseqC 4x1 send power to every port no matter what the receiver switch to?. It is not clear on the switch setup diagram by iceberg wether those are powered 4x4 or not. I would assume yes but not sure and after installing everithing today I have to connect and align, scan and finish everything tomorrow for a friend. well monday is a holiday here in canada so it could be done on monday.

2) 2 of the Dish are motorized with Dual standard Ku , obviously 2 receivers will control each motor only and the third one will have to watch whatever satellite the motors are pointing at but .... How do I program the 3rd receiver to be able to select any motor automatically because mi friends and family are not very tech savvy so they will not be able to go into the menus to change the antenna settings. I do not see a way to do it with several receivers I have worked with. My best choice so far is for the 3rd receiver to programm several satellites with 1 motor and other satellites with the other motor depending on the viewing habits of the other 2 receivers.

I hope you guys understood both questions and scenario. when I planned everything I thought the third receiver could just by changing channels select the motor that is actually pointing at the proper SAT without being able to drive it of course but at least to watch the channel without going in to the menus and change the antenna settings.

I have a bad feeling that it was my mistake to think that this could be acomplished with no troubles for the end user but I could be wrong , How I wish!!

 

[Mr Tony]

I could not find the exact answer after searching a while.

after reading it I could see why

1) The 4x4 are powered , power inserter to port 1 , Will the 4x4 still have power if the receiver switches to an LNB on another 4x4?.

They have a power inserter? Most of the ones I've seen the power is on the side of the switch away from any receiver cable. This may be an issue.

I mean does the DiseqC 4x1 send power to every port no matter what the receiver switch to?. It is not clear on the switch setup diagram by iceberg wether those are powered 4x4 or not.

none of my 4x4 switches are powered. The Zinwell ones are unpowered but work just fine.

2) 2 of the Dish are motorized with Dual standard Ku , obviously 2 receivers will control each motor only and the third one will have to watch whatever satellite the motors are pointing at

Here is where the confusion comes in. You mention 6 LNB's but 2 motorized. Where are the other 4 LNB's?
-are they fixed dishes somewhere?
-are the LNB's QPH031's so they tie up both ports of the 4x4?

I havent completed my setup yet but I have 3 fixed dishes and 2 motorized setups. One motorized has a DBS/KU setup and the other is just KU

2 receivers run the motorized setups
the other receivers in the house can see the 3 fixed dishes (99 C-Band, 91 C-Band, 121 C-Band) or can blind scan off the other 2 motorized setups. Now because its just me in the house I have a satellite in the recever named "motorized 1" and "motorized 2" so I can just blind scan. This may not work for your setup.

But if you have fixed dishes in the mix at least the 3rd receiver can watch what is on those

 

[Anole]

two points:

a). how does your configuration differ from this stock suggestion in the Switch FAQ?

b). all the diseqc switches I've seen, power only the selected LNB.
But since in your example, you say you are powering the 4x4's yourself, it really doesn't matter.

c). I hope you are not back-feeding power with your inserter, to the diseqc switch.

 

[Tron]

It is a good idea not to try to control the motor with more than one receiver. My newly-erected second motorized dish is controlled by a second receiver (both motorized dishes are completely separate systems).

 

[hd fan]

thanks for all the prompt answers.

Iceberg: 4 lnbs are on fixed dishes plus 2 DBS (bell TV) and 2 motorized Ku. if it was me the blind scan solution would be fine but for them I will just set several satellites with 1 motor o the other with the other motor as per the other 2 receiver viewing habits. What would be the difference between the powered and non powered 4x4? I bought SW44 thinking that they were the best signal wise , I mean that they some how boost the signal internally to compensate for the signal loss when splitting the signal or is it just to maintain 13V and 18V accordinly for each LNB? I am planning on installing the switches today BUT OUTSIDE (so only 3 cables (1 for each receiver go inside as it is now , it is an existing system , I am adding 2 motorised dish and relocated all the Dish) with the power inserter inside , that is why I also bought the SW44 version instead of the independent powered 4x4 switches like Zinwell (BTW it already had 3 of does 2x4 non powered with 3 4x1 Chieta I think)

Anole: a) exactly the same configuration I am using (4x4 numbered and then conected to the same port number on the 4x1 to make it easier to troubleshoot in the future)

b) no I see I will have an issue there, power inserter inside I was thinking, and yes I was going to screw the switch I guess. Nothing has been installed or connected yet , only the Dishes and motors , no cables , that is why I wanted to ask first here.

Tron: yes I agree , only 2 receivers go to 1 motor each , then to the rest of switches /LNBs but I wanted the third receiver to be able to see programming from the motorized ones from whatever satellite they were pointing at at the moment plus obviously from the fixed dishes. Family is comprised of people from Canada , Cuba and Chile so they want programming from those countries. Bell TV only offers 1 Spanish channel and is mediocre mostly repeats of Univision shows

Thanks so much for the responses , you saved me from damaging something, at leats the chieta's 4x1!!!. I guess I will use non powered 4x4 then because every LNB is dual and I want every receiver to get signal from every LNB at all times so 12 cables going into the electrical panel from outside is no option , way too many and ugly (although some pvc pipe or canal like Rogers cable outside on buildings will do lol.

My main concern is signal levels at the receivers , I am using 90 cm dishes (except bell is 24 inches i think) , cable runs with the new higher relocation are a straight line and probably 20 ft to the electrical panel. all rg-6 , snap and seal connectors with weather boots. 4x1 heavy duty chieta (1.5 db loss only). will the Zinwell 4x4 non powered have a very low insertion loss , is there any other better non powered switch or even better a better solution.

Looking forward for your valuable info .... and thanks again.

 

[hd fan]

Finally! how come it did not ocurred to me before! . my set up only has 3 receivers therefore port 1 for the power inserter on every SW44 could be permanently dedicated for the power inserters only and use the other 3 ports to connect every 4x1 Chieta for the 3 receivers. I only have to run 3 more rg-6 lines from the electrical panel to the switches in the roof. Stop typing , Time to climb the ladder people lol.

will post results later if any lol.

 

[guapoharry]

a). how does your configuration differ from this stock suggestion in the Switch FAQ?

The OP wants to use a motor on some of the dishes.

Given the stock configuration mentioned, what are some preferred ways to use a motor with that setup?

1. Run a cable from the controlling receiver out to the motor and another then back to the DisEqC switch? (and another cable then from the multiswitch back to the LNBF)

2. Or, could you use a power passing splitter that feeds the DisEqC switch and the motor?

3. What?

I have been wondering about this...

 

[hd fan]

Guapoharry, I think option one is best.

I finished all the conections and switches and ran the 3 extra lines for the power inserters. I will program receivers and aim and blind scan and change names on satelites and channels tomorrow.

 

[hd fan]

well it all works only if the receivers are conected straight to the LNB's. If I use the siwtches set up they do not get signal quality at all. even strength is low at 70%. I do not see anything wrong with the set up and receivers config. Power insertesrs are ok , permanently dedicated to port 1 on the 3 SW 44 and with enough voltage at the switch. I guess I am loosing way too much signal through the switching matrix (SW44 + Chieta). Receivers are Viewsat Extreme (minimum Q to lock around 13) and with a straight connection via motor stab it gets Q 75 on KTEL Telemundo on AMC 5 @ 79W my true south sat. Other than using a sat in-line amplifier usaully required for long cable runs over 150 ft and mine is half of that probably I do not know what else to do. cable RG-6 , 3 Ghz tested but I will test another new coaxial because I did not replace the 3 existing coaxial lines. just in case.

Anyone have any other ideas?

 

[Anole]

other ideas:

You keep saying SW-44 switches.
The only such switch I remember, is a DishNetwork legacy switch.
That does not work like a multiswitch, so far as I know.
Could you give us a picture, or link to this device?

 

[hd fan]

thanks Anole. that is exactly the problem , I bought 3 SW-44 switches (and they say Dish Network , the same one that Bell TV installed in my house) thinking that therefore they were the best and that all multiswitches worked the same. I can see now I was wrong.

how much different they work compared with the multiswitches? . Dont they use 22 khz tone and 13/18 V control as well?

What would be the recommended switch to replace with then? powered Zinwell , EMC Centauri or almost any brand will perform similary?

 

[Anole]

for example:

Most any should work, I suspect.
Pendragon found the WNC SWA-48 to his liking, and gave some reasons.
No modifications are necessary for your application.
So, as you can see from reading the thread, I ordered one to play with.
Hasn't come in yet, but I was in no hurry.

 

[hd fan]

Finally after waiting several days for the late afternoon rains to stop I managed to get everything working using 3 4x4 Zinwell which are non powered therefore my friend now has 3 extra RG-6 going to the roof for future expansion or UHF antenna use if needed. BTW those 4x4 Zinwell are very good , signal levels as per the receivers scale stayed the same. I will fully test levels and C/N ratio and compare tomorrow with the birdog. I am finally a happy camper!. This monster install was already driving me crazy!.

 

[Mr Tony]

those 4x4 zinwells kick butt. Have a couple in my setups

 

[Anole]

love a happy ending:

Good to hear two positive votes for the 4x4 Zinwells.
I think I used their pictures in some of my drawings, and am glad they're not duds.

Well, at least we were able to put the finger on the problem, and get you back in operation again!
Glad to hear the project is up 'n working.
I'm sure the extra RG6's will find a purpose.
If nothing more than spares to test, next time there's a problem! - :up