Almost got my Christmas FTA project done :)

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Mr Tony

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Nov 17, 2003
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Since it has been nice here in MN (40 today which is balmy) this past weekend I decided to tweak the T90 and add a couple more LNB's. Also wanted to test the limits of some of the 2 degree issues that the T90 has. Technically they say you can't get 2 degrees due to the brackets and the LNB size. Well, I wanted to see if how well I could do 2 degrees.

At the time the dish was aimed at 89 center and LNB's on 72,74,79,85,89,93,97,103,107

But I wanted more :)

So I moved the dish to 93 (which is my true south) and made sure 74 looked good. Adding 72 to 74 is real easy for me. Just put the holder on and make the LNB's touch. Most of what is on 72 I get. Not as strong as the motorized, but good enough to work. Then I slid down the LNB holder for 79. Then I added a holder to see if I could get 83/85. Locked 85 down strong (thank goodness for test cards) and wedged 83 there too. That is BOOMING. I had 89 & 93 but there hasnt been much on 89 latelly and alot more on 91. So can I get 91/93? Locked 93 in and twisted the LNB holder and bam. the test card on 91 at 80 on the Pansat :)
Slid 97 into place and I figured "well 101 is so dang strong I can get it with a smaller dish, so I can surely get the strong stuff with it offset". So I aaimed the LNB at 103 and tuned that (including the oddball offset) and locked down. 101 I barely moved and the strogn stuff was at 99. Even RTPi, which is weaker is at 60.

Added 107.3 & 111.1 for my Starchoice sub. Then added 119 for the audio. This took some tweaking as it was off the bar. Found an old piece of trim and cut and bolted to the arm (I had drilled a hole in the slide scale) and had to rig a bracket (I just cut the bottom of the holder off). Nice 90 on all TP's :)

So now I have 13 LNB's
72,74,79,83,85,91,93,97,101,103,107.3,111.1,119

I have a couple LNB's mixed on the switches. I put 72 V & 119 H together (most audio on Dish is on H polarity) and mixed 101 V & 103 H together. Just have to hook up the cables from the 4x1 diseqcs into the house.

1st picture is the whole thing
2nd pic is 101/103 (I had to shave a little off the plastic cap for 101
3rd shows the "Extension" for 119
4th shows the whole thing
5th is from 72 going down the line
6th shows 91 & 93
 

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Wescopc

Wescopc

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I am impressed, having just set my T90 up two days ago with 22.5 degrees of skew, I envy your center/TS satellite being the same sat.
I love the T90 so far, look forward to following your lead.
Bob
 
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Mr Tony

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Bob
I originally had 103 as my middle when I first started (wanted G10 on the dish) but decided to switch it around. So I had a skew of +10 or so. I had 89 as my TS for a while but wanted 119 on the setup too and didnt want to use a separate dish.

I lucked out with 93 as my TS. I found with the T90 the slide scale isn't true to scale. Example is 74 & 72. Since they are 19 & 21 off center yet 72 is barely hangin on the end (25) and 74 is right next door at about 22 on the scale. The thing I have learned with the T90 is to use the slide scale (where the LNB holders go) is just a suggestion. Tweaking it gets the best signal. What I do is get to the "suggested spot" and then go from there twisting the holder for optimum signal. Works pretty good :)

Good luck with the dish. These dishes are fun to work on and I need to figure out how to shave off some of the LNB to get the 2 degrees to work. 101/103 seemed to be the hardest to get to work. :)
 
Tron

Tron

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May 6, 2005
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That is great, Ice! I had been under the impression that 2 degrees was realistic with one bird circular (DBS) and the other linear, with the linear being dead on and the circular being offset a bit. I'm excited to hear that it can be done with two linears. I imagine they do not suggest two degrees since it may not be workable with all satellites.

Merry Christmas!
 
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Mr Tony

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That is great, Ice! I had been under the impression that 2 degrees was realistic with one bird circular (DBS) and the other linear, with the linear being dead on and the circular being offset a bit. I'm excited to hear that it can be done with two linears. I imagine they do not suggest two degrees since it may not be workable with all satellites.

Merry Christmas!

exactly. I tried to do 89/91/93 but could only muster a 30 on the Pansat on ABCNewsnow. Had a 90 normally. But I might pull out the grinder and shave off some of the LNB cover to see if I can get a little better. I see a little gap in between 85 & 91 that just needs a home :D

Circular/linear is easy. Just lock in the linear and slide the circular down. Since DBS is stonger there is a lot of room for error.
 
Anole

Anole

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Sep 22, 2005
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Now we know what all those switches were for, last week. :up
Though, I wonder if you have sufficient switching...?

A while back, I remember reading a thread about getting two birds at 4º on a standard 30-36" dish.
One secret was to use some very small LNBs, and snug them pretty close.
It seems like you have a lot of elbow room on this dish.
Would those tiny LNBs help, , , or are you already using them to get this far??

Happy Holidays.

edit: I have images of someone using a StarChoice twin LNB for 121, and adding a custom modified 119 to it, if you need some encouragement. :)
.
 
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MikeI

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Sep 25, 2004
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Are the signals just as strong or close on all the satellites?
 
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Mr Tony

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Are the signals just as strong or close on all the satellites?

Mike
The signals are about the same (or a little higher) than my 30" motorized. I know on AMC2 the signals are blech because of the footprint here in MN but the test card on AMC2 is at 90-95 on the Pansat (the 30" dish gives me a 70...30 is threshold)

I'm still working on SBS6 Vertical since those are not the best in MN.
AMC4 even though off (its wedged behind AMC1) has 99% on KUIL & 3ABN, 90 on Hope, 80 on LLBN and 60 on RTPi. AMC1 has a lot of feeds (although on the motorized I can never get them due to the skew being off)..IA5 almost all TP's are 90+
IA6 CBS News is 80, Doc Scott is 99, some of the feeds I picked up yesterday were at 80-85 (they were 75-77 on the 30") IA6 is my TS on this dish.
I still have to try IA8 as I could get a flicker (30-32) on ABCNewsNow but I have to fabricate something. G11 was pretty good. The test cards were strong and a couple feeds were a smidge weaker but still stable.

That was one of the reasons I got the Dish originally was to consolidate and hoped that the signals wouldn't be comprimised and the signals are just as good or even better in some cases.
 
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Mr Tony

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Now we know what all those switches were for, last week. :up
yep. Trying to optimize the setup
Though, I wonder if you have sufficient switching...?
the only one that doesn't have a home right now on the switches is 83. With 4 4x4 multiswitches thats 8 inputs...It's setup with
74,79,85,91,93,97 all have both lines run to the 4x4 multiswitches. SO there is 6 slots. I took 101 V & 103 H into another. Most of the feeds on 103 are on H and KUIL is V. The last was 72 V (most of the stuff is on there) and a feed from 119 H. Most of the music channels is on H polarity. I might change that to both of 119 for NASA and stuff and run a 4x1 with 72,83,101 and put the dual for 103 back on.

A while back, I remember reading a thread about getting two birds at 4º on a standard 30-36" dish.
One secret was to use some very small LNBs, and snug them pretty close.
It seems like you have a lot of elbow room on this dish.
Would those tiny LNBs help, , , or are you already using them to get this far??
the LNB's that SatAv sells (these are the ones you're talking about) are singles. And it really isnt the LNB's that are the issue. Its the holders. They're just big.
 
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MikeI

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Sep 25, 2004
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Mike
The signals are about the same (or a little higher) than my 30" motorized. I know on AMC2 the signals are blech because of the footprint here in MN but the test card on AMC2 is at 90-95 on the Pansat (the 30" dish gives me a 70...30 is threshold)

I'm still working on SBS6 Vertical since those are not the best in MN.
AMC4 even though off (its wedged behind AMC1) has 99% on KUIL & 3ABN, 90 on Hope, 80 on LLBN and 60 on RTPi. AMC1 has a lot of feeds (although on the motorized I can never get them due to the skew being off)..IA5 almost all TP's are 90+
IA6 CBS News is 80, Doc Scott is 99, some of the feeds I picked up yesterday were at 80-85 (they were 75-77 on the 30") IA6 is my TS on this dish.
I still have to try IA8 as I could get a flicker (30-32) on ABCNewsNow but I have to fabricate something. G11 was pretty good. The test cards were strong and a couple feeds were a smidge weaker but still stable.

That was one of the reasons I got the Dish originally was to consolidate and hoped that the signals wouldn't be comprimised and the signals are just as good or even better in some cases.

Thanks for the info. I may get one when I move in the spring. I'm worried about loss of signal the most.
 
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jollyrgr

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Aug 25, 2005
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Iceberg or others:

I understand basically what you are doing. You have one toroidal dish that is 42x40" with a bunch of LNBs. I can figure out the switching of the different LNBs using some sort of arrangement of my own (so I'd hope). Here is what I don't understand. Maybe someone would be willing to help?

I currently have a 10' C/Ku dish and related LNBs for both bands mounted on a typical big dish feedhorn. I use the analog receiver to tweak the dish on a C-band bird then either use the Ku side or switch the C LNB over to the FTA DVB receiver. This arrangement has been working fine (with maybe the exception of G10R). Now on to my question. Can a circular 10' mesh dish do the same thing or do I need a toroidal dish? My thinking is attach a bunch of LNBs to a bracket then aim the big dish at a "central" location such as my true south bird. Then align each of the individual LNBs and bring them in on one feed, one at a time, via switching. I tried once before to use a "universal" LNBf "off center" on a big dish but had zero success. (I could peak it for a signal on a meter but could not lock into anything.) I also have a small 36" dish taking up space in the garage. Would I be better off mounting this focused at one location and adding several LNBs?

It looks as if you are using two dishes; one aimed at the satellite, then another aimed at the dish to reflect back into the LNBs. Is this what you did?

Crazy idea.... Would it be possible to use one LNB and a stationary dish but move the LNB? Or does this get too complex to rotate the LNB polarity/skew correctly? Hmmm. Possibly a mechanical skew and manual box for adjusting skew?
 
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Mr Tony

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I

It looks as if you are using two dishes; one aimed at the satellite, then another aimed at the dish to reflect back into the LNBs. Is this what you did?

That is the design of the Toroidal. The signal comes down, hits the mian dish, reflects to the "sub" reflector and hits the LNB.
Here is what I mean (From the Wave Frontier site)
 

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M

Mr Tony

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Thanks for the info. I may get one when I move in the spring. I'm worried about loss of signal the most.

last night I got to really try G11 being offset

The test card (12060) was at 75 on Pansat
I had a bunch of feeds (news feeds) but I had 3 sports feeds
feed 1 was at 55-60
feed 2 was at 45-50
feed 3 was at 70

Converselly, the same feeds on my 30" were at
feed 1 was at 40 and pixeling
feed 2 was at 32 and really pixeling
feed 3 was at 65-70

so even offset, it still game be better results than a 30". I think the bigger reflector might compensate for being off centre. I know you have the 40x30 Primestar dishes so I don't know what the difference in signal will be.
 
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