AZBox Premium +; help w/ scan ?

[cbuddy]

Just got an AZBox Premium + going, and am having trouble getting most transponders on the birds I've scanned.

Set up is 10 ft. BUD; Chaparral Corotor II + feedhorn; Norsat 8115 C band & 4106A LNB's; analog receiver used to aim dish & drive TP servo; currently only the C band coax is feeding AZBox, then looped thru analog box to view position numbers on a second monitor.

Sample issue - on Galaxy 16 (99 ' W), I tweaked position & skew 'til Quality on one TP was 95 - 100% - did blind scan for both vertical and horizontal POLS, and got only a few TP's - clear services (e.g. GDMX - about twenty of them) have perfect clarity on all SD & HD signals at 3740 MHz & 3820 MHz (DVB-S2; DVB-S respectively), however, there are only about 11 of the 30+ TP's listed on Lyngsat for that bird and most show "No Signal" for those services listed as in the clear; I also tried doing TP scan w/ same result; Tried editing in a TP > cannot get added TP to stay, as after being saved it does not show up as an available TP in Advanced Scan list.

Any help will be GREATLY appreciated. ::smiley

BTW - this box does get amazing video even on my SD TV w/ clarity rivaling stuff played on our DVD player, and has some VERY cool features.

 

[AcWxRadar]

cbuddy,

There are several items that can be limiting your reception of specific TPs on both C and Ku bands.

First of all, simply just your dish alignment. That's a very basic problem that everyone contends with to some extent even with the best aligned system. The AZBox tuners seem to be more restrictive here and some lower power TPs don't pull in if the dish is not perfectly aligned. Here is a note that I use for the Ku band side of Galaxy 16... I use USALS with my H-H motor and I tell the system that the satellite is actually at 99.2°W instead of 99.0°W. This slight difference in orbital position makes a difference for me, however, I still do not obtain many live TPs on Galaxy 16 from the Ku band side. Some satellite orbital positions are rounded off a little bit depending upon what source you go to to locate their position. If you research this, there are more accurate sources for the true position of all satellites. Just do some Google searching.

Second, especially for your example sat of 99W Galaxy 16, many TPs on both the C and Ku bands are FEEDs, so they may not be transmitting when you perform the scan (even if they are good TPs). In these cases, the AZBox, nor any box, will log those TPs in.

Third, you cannot always trust Lyngsat's data to be currently up to date. Some of the TPs listed may have been picked up at one time, but have not been updated recently and may no longer be in use or else they are very infrequently used.

Then for the fourth item, editing in a TP, I have not seen a problem with doing this. However, I am not fully aware of how the ADVANCED SCAN menu responds in all cases. I either use the standard TP SCAN or I BLIND SCAN with my Premium +. If you are looking for a specific TP using BLIND SCAN, set up the "start" and "end" frequencies as a small band or range. i.e. If you are looking for TP 4000 MHz, try setting the start frequency at 3990 and the end frequency at 4010.

Another thing you might try is to edit the TP in and then download the files using the ACC program, save the files on your PC and then upload the files back to your AZBox. If you read the instructions in the "A-Z User's Guide for the AZBox", you will locate the instructions of how the North-Americanize your satellite list. Without going into all the details here, there is a specific reason for following that procedure. The short of it is that there is a back-up file within the AZBox in a location that does not get updated when you manually edit your satellite list. That back-up file is write protected, but if you use the above procedure, or the ACC program, it temporarily makes that file writable and saves your changes to it. If you don't apply this procedure, weird things can happen as it seems that the AZBox wants to rewrite over your changes and re-install the factory satellite list information. That is a very simplistic and vague way to describe it, but I think it gets the point across without writing a novel about it.

Another helpful hint for you is to look into satbeams.com (this will be another supporting resource to go along with Lyngsat).

RADAR

 

[cbuddy]

Thanks Radar,

Two things I did figure out is that when you add a TP with "edit": (1) you cannot add one that is nearly identical to one already in the memory. By deleting the too similar TP, the new one will appear in the list; (2) The added TP will not appear in the "Advanced Scan" list - only in the "Satellite" and the "TP Scan" lists for TP's, or at least that is what I have observed so far.

It is a little confusing to me that on some birds there are multiple TP's with the same Freq. but, say, a different polarity, but the program will not accept a similar Freq. (like the last digit a "5" in the last place when there is already one with a "6" there) if both have the same polarity.

 

[AcWxRadar]

Thanks Radar,

Two things I did figure out is that when you add a TP with "edit": (1) you cannot add one that is nearly identical to one already in the memory. By deleting the too similar TP, the new one will appear in the list; (2) The added TP will not appear in the "Advanced Scan" list - only in the "Satellite" and the "TP Scan" lists for TP's, or at least that is what I have observed so far.

It is a little confusing to me that on some birds there are multiple TP's with the same Freq. but, say, a different polarity, but the program will not accept a similar Freq. (like the last digit a "5" in the last place when there is already one with a "6" there) if both have the same polarity.

cbuddy,

Oh yes, that is a very good point and I should have recalled that earlier. The AZBox does not like duplicate TPs and TPs which are similar in frequency can be detected as "duplicates" by the AZBox. I don't know what the separation in the frequencies MUST be, but in general, the satellite provider won't have two currently active TPs which are that close in frequency. One of them will usually be defunct and it should be deleted.

Here is the "kicker" to deleting an old TP if it is similar or an outright duplicate of one you want to add. If you simply delete the one TP using the remote control via menu access, that "back-up" file that I mentioned does not apply your update. So, when you go to try to add the NEW TP, the old TP is still residing in that back-up file and the AZBox won't allow you to add the new TP. This is where you need to apply the procedures that are used during the "North-Americanizing Your Sat List". In essence, once you have deleted the old TP, you download your *.dat files to your PC, save the files and then upload them back to the AZBox using the ACC utility program. During the upload process, the ACC utility "overwrites" the back-up file as well as the working file and then you are able to edit IN the new TP.

I cannot explain why it is set up this way or why the back-up file is required. I can only surmize that it has something to do with the Linux System operating parameters. It is confusing without knowing the logic behind it and it makes it quite "quirky" in my way of thinking. But alas, we can work around it most of the time.

Hope you will be having good luck and success with the AZBox and better responses as you go along.

RADAR

 

[Diamond Jim]

I have two channels at TP 3800. I entered one at 3798 and the other at 3802. It took both of them with no problem.

 

[Valasante]

I noticed that if the difference between the last digit on the existing TP and the one to be added is more than three then the new one will be added otherwise it will ignore it. Also notice that when there are differnces of +-2 between the reported TP figures by Kingof sat, Flysat and others, it still works.

 

[cbuddy]

Thanks to everyonefor all the help.

I guess I have an "Americanized" box, as it seems to save and use any new TP's I edit in or get from a scan, even after a reboot.

I did get a great tip on working around TP's that are very similar - and particularly for when you don't have many working TP's, like when getting started on a bird
1. If you use this, DO NOT DELETE ALL OF THE TP'S FROM A SATELLITE !!! This has already been said by Radar and others, thankfully, but if you missed it, BEWARE ! Apparently, the AZBox software writers abhor a vacuum.
2. Go to settings; then to where you can scan a bird, etc.
3. Go to Edit SAT/TP
4. pick one TP with a Freq. you will not need on that bird (one that is not in the range of TP's listed on SatBeams or another reliable resource
5. Delete every other TP Freq. EXCEPT ONE
6. Blind scan for each polarity in turn (or not if you have a receiver > dish set up that switches polarity for you - I don't) - you can save a lot of time by restricting each scan to one polarity in the Blind Scan "Polarization" option; and more time by restricting the lowest and highest Freq's. to be scanned

I tried this on Ku band with a bird that had yielded only a few new TP's and 16 services (only two were viewable) with a full blind scan on both Pols. Using the method above, I got over twenty five TP's and and 167 services, mostly with viewable content. Comparing listed TP's to those already in the AZBox I saw why. Nearly every TP listed on SatBeams was very close to one already stored in the STB, and many in the STB memory were no where near anything listed for the bird on SatBeams. But if you already have a bunch of working services and don't want to lose them, it seems you would have to go through the entire set of TP's and work through each conflict individually. And then there is the issue of just how good a blind scan will be with conditions and all - I still had to go through and edit in a few TP's after the blind scan to get a few desired services.

 

[stargaze]

Thanks to everyonefor all the help.

I guess I have an "Americanized" box, as it seems to save and use any new TP's I edit in or get from a scan, even after a reboot.

I did get a great tip on working around TP's that are very similar - and particularly for when you don't have many working TP's, like when getting started on a bird
1. If you use this, DO NOT DELETE ALL OF THE TP'S FROM A SATELLITE !!! .

Well maybe not quite.
first if you have not already done so (in the sticky area above) download the Az Users Guide and the Question & Answer Guide which are 2 different pdf files that answer most of the questions on the az receiver.
To have a North Americanized receiver that means you have only the Western Satellites in the box.

You are correct in that you never delete every TP from a satellite. Always leave one in there until you scan in one proper channel then get rid of the one that was left over from before. This gives you a clean slate and yes you will find you can scan in more channels then before as now your receiver is cleaned out of the old stuff and can scan in channels based on your setup.

To North Americanize your receiver on your own it can take several hours.
If you follow the links in the Az Users Guide there is a place where you can download a zipped file which contains a North Americanized Sat/channel list which will save you the time. You will then have to set your DiSEqC settings and there is a link that provides you with some basic programs that work with the AzBox so you can edit channels and also a program called ACC which is a great program that sends the files to your Azbox that also sets the sat list in your backup directory as well so you have less chance of having your AzBox channel list becoming corrupted.
All this is done so you can spend more time watching FTA then fiddling at every turn with the AzBox.

The newer firmware 0.9.5308 has come a long way in getting rid of old outdated information in the Satellite/Channel list and for most people it should suit them fine. However, I have found here that deleting all but 1 tp was again necessary as our system setups are not all the same.

Anyone using a firmware before 0.9.5308 will eventually have a corrupted channel list due to one satellite having no transponders listed in it.

My next sat list I am working on is experimenting with having a H & V polarity Satellite's listed in the receiver. So far it appears to work fine on a few sats that have Freq's that are part time and close in numbers that every channel can be put in the receiver without a problem. Creating these lists and adding the channels, and having it done correctly, can take an entire day to finish.

 

[cbuddy]

Well, after reading the file on "North Americanizing" the AZBox that came along with the box from the seller, I think I will need to get some of the files and update a few things and be able to edit lists. But so far, I have not had anything lost from memory, so maybe the reference to that is if the unit crashes, and not when it is powered off. Thanks to Radar & Stargaze on clarifying the updates issue..

I am still puzzled by what happens during blind scans. When I begin by clearing nearly all TP's, I get anything from excellent to very poor results. Some is certainly due to conditions, but some seems to be what the AZBox does - as in the scan itself, and whether or not it reinstates deleted TP's before or during the scan. But I am getting a lot of services, now several hundred with very good to excellent quality signals, and I have only located about ten birds. My biggest problem at the moment is finding birds with my arcane analog box set up, which is painfully slow. I am also unable to master a few settings issues, but I will post those separately.