Can't get ONE channel

cluelesss

Thread Starter
Active SatelliteGuys Member
Jun 30, 2020
16
1
new Orleans, LA
It's been a few days and we've had rain on and off every day since I started this thread and it seems there's a LOT more fading out/pixelating because of the atmospheric conditions, then before the 2nd box install (when the antenna position was moved)

So that tells me that it IS the reception and positioning of the antenna more than anything else.

Is my logic sound?
 

FTA4PA

Satellite Guys Family
Lifetime Supporter
Nov 13, 2013
4,481
2,365
Central Pennsylvania
It's been a few days and we've had rain on and off every day since I started this thread and it seems there's a LOT more fading out/pixelating because of the atmospheric conditions, then before the 2nd box install (when the antenna position was moved)

So that tells me that it IS the reception and positioning of the antenna more than anything else.

Is my logic sound?
Definitely a reception issue but you need to figure out why. Any pics yet of how they have things connected now? Question I would be asking is why did they move the antenna position if the signal was good before the second box was installed. Did they add anything to boost the signal before just moving it to another spot? My first recommendation is still to have the Orby installer come back and try to fix what they did before you take it on yourself. :)
 

cluelesss

Thread Starter
Active SatelliteGuys Member
Jun 30, 2020
16
1
new Orleans, LA
No, no pics yet. Gimme a few days.

Why did they move the antenna? Good effin question. I don't understand why they do half the stuff they do! There was a lot of moving and switching and switching back and swapping out...who the hell knows?

I can't answer your other questions, but once I get a shot of what's up there, perhaps that will make some sense.

Definitely a reception issue but you need to figure out why. Any pics yet of how they have things connected now? Question I would be asking is why did they move the antenna position if the signal was good before the second box was installed. Did they add anything to boost the signal before just moving it to another spot? My first recommendation is still to have the Orby installer come back and try to fix what they did before you take it on yourself. :)
 
  • Like
Reactions: FTA4PA

Claude Greiner

SatelliteGuys Master
Supporting Founder
Sep 8, 2003
13,208
3,740
Detroit - The Paris of the Midwest
We used to install Orby, this is very typical to be missing certain OTA channels in 1 room and not in the second room.

The problem is as an installer we are given the antenna for the locals and told to provide the splitter.

We are not getting reimbursed to provide an upgraded antenna or booster. The customer can pay for a better antenna, but most refuse to pay anything beyond the basic install.

That is what gets installed and if it doesn’t work, the only thing we can do is to try to repoint the antenna.

They are not paying us to install the antenna in a separate location, or paying for a better antenna or a booster.

Besides the meter that we have to use our cell phones to point the Dish, we are very limited when it comes to OTA.

Then they where not paying us to go back either when a customer opened a trouble call for this issue.

Got to the point we had to point this out during the initial install and go through all the channels on all the tv’s before we left so we didn’t get burned with a repeat.
 

Claude Greiner

SatelliteGuys Master
Supporting Founder
Sep 8, 2003
13,208
3,740
Detroit - The Paris of the Midwest
This is my setup that I installed myself. I have a mast-mounted amp for my antenna to boost the OTA signal before distribution. The OTA coax and the Orby coax are fed into a Zinwell SAM-3402 multiswitch which then feeds our four Orby receivers. I also have ASKA PT-1 surge supressors on both coax inputs. Here is a pic of my connections.

View attachment 146033
I think the surge can cause more problems than it solves.

But that’s better than the diplexer and splitter.

I believe they even make a multi switch that amplified the antenna input
 

FTA4PA

Satellite Guys Family
Lifetime Supporter
Nov 13, 2013
4,481
2,365
Central Pennsylvania
We used to install Orby, this is very typical to be missing certain OTA channels in 1 room and not in the second room.

The problem is as an installer we are given the antenna for the locals and told to provide the splitter.

We are not getting reimbursed to provide an upgraded antenna or booster. The customer can pay for a better antenna, but most refuse to pay anything beyond the basic install.

That is what gets installed and if it doesn’t work, the only thing we can do is to try to repoint the antenna.

They are not paying us to install the antenna in a separate location, or paying for a better antenna or a booster.

Besides the meter that we have to use our cell phones to point the Dish, we are very limited when it comes to OTA.

Then they where not paying us to go back either when a customer opened a trouble call for this issue.

Got to the point we had to point this out during the initial install and go through all the channels on all the tv’s before we left so we didn’t get burned with a repeat.
Sounds like as an installer you are really kind of ham-stringed by policy and what a company you are installing for is willing to reimburse. Sorry, but IMHO that is not the way to do business (them, not you). I can understand why you no longer do some installs if that is the case. I have always believed that if you do something you do it right or you don't do it at all. Service quality from 'another satellite company' is why I dropped their service years ago in favor of OTA and FTA and is why I do all my own install work. Even with the monthly cost if I wasn't given the opportunity to do my own Orby install then I likely would not have tried their service at all. So far I am happy with it. I have had one interaction with a company representative who spoke clear English and handled my problem, reactivating a receiver after I had to reset it after a lock up, in a quick and satisfactory mannner. :)
 

FTA4PA

Satellite Guys Family
Lifetime Supporter
Nov 13, 2013
4,481
2,365
Central Pennsylvania
I think the surge can cause more problems than it solves.

But that’s better than the diplexer and splitter.

I believe they even make a multi switch that amplified the antenna input
Yes, that is definitely true. If you are near the transmitters and have strong signals already then amplifying it can mess with tuner. No issue with that here. At 41 and 57 miles away with two edge reception I couldn't get a strong enough signal to use a splitter unless I amped it. ;)
 

cluelesss

Thread Starter
Active SatelliteGuys Member
Jun 30, 2020
16
1
new Orleans, LA
This is all really helpful info! Thanks for filling us in!

We used to install Orby, this is very typical to be missing certain OTA channels in 1 room and not in the second room.

The problem is as an installer we are given the antenna for the locals and told to provide the splitter.

We are not getting reimbursed to provide an upgraded antenna or booster. The customer can pay for a better antenna, but most refuse to pay anything beyond the basic install.

That is what gets installed and if it doesn’t work, the only thing we can do is to try to repoint the antenna.

They are not paying us to install the antenna in a separate location, or paying for a better antenna or a booster.

Besides the meter that we have to use our cell phones to point the Dish, we are very limited when it comes to OTA.

Then they where not paying us to go back either when a customer opened a trouble call for this issue.

Got to the point we had to point this out during the initial install and go through all the channels on all the tv’s before we left so we didn’t get burned with a repeat.
 

cluelesss

Thread Starter
Active SatelliteGuys Member
Jun 30, 2020
16
1
new Orleans, LA
I wanted to fill ya'll in. Still haven't had a chance to get up there and get pics...I've had some work projects take priority and all my mental focus switched over to that...I'll try to get to it when I can.

Ready for this though? We had a bad storm (couple really) come though a few days ago, and sonofabitch if that channel wasn't coming though fine and dandy! IN THE STORM!?! Eventually it did pixelate and waver cut out, and ever since, here and there it pokes through, but 97% of the time its a blank screen. When it does it work, it works, its fine--so it's *not* the equipment.

So it appears that it really is just an issue of reception.

I have ZERO knowledge of this stuff, and couldn't fathom how it could work, then not work (after 2nd box install {and moving the antenna}) for no apparent reason. I would never have thought that reception could be so touchy.

So now I understand how damn touchy reception can be, and the solution lies in addressing that.

Thoughts?
 

FTA4PA

Satellite Guys Family
Lifetime Supporter
Nov 13, 2013
4,481
2,365
Central Pennsylvania
I wanted to fill ya'll in. Still haven't had a chance to get up there and get pics...I've had some work projects take priority and all my mental focus switched over to that...I'll try to get to it when I can.

Ready for this though? We had a bad storm (couple really) come though a few days ago, and sonofabitch if that channel wasn't coming though fine and dandy! IN THE STORM!?! Eventually it did pixelate and waver cut out, and ever since, here and there it pokes through, but 97% of the time its a blank screen. When it does it work, it works, its fine--so it's *not* the equipment.

So it appears that it really is just an issue of reception.

I have ZERO knowledge of this stuff, and couldn't fathom how it could work, then not work (after 2nd box install {and moving the antenna}) for no apparent reason. I would never have thought that reception could be so touchy.

So now I understand how damn touchy reception can be, and the solution lies in addressing that.

Thoughts?
Yeah, reception can be tricky if you don't have line of sight to the transmitter. You can have one-edge reception (signal bounces of one obstruction to get to you), two-edge reception (signal bounces of two obstructions to get to you), leaves on trees, especially if wet, can have an effect. Then we have your situation where atmospherics of the passing storms apparently reflected the signal enough for you to pick it up. :)
 

cluelesss

Thread Starter
Active SatelliteGuys Member
Jun 30, 2020
16
1
new Orleans, LA
Well, sh*t! See? This is all the stuff I'm learning! I would never have guessed that!

I'm leaning towards a second antenna: I've been googling and watching youtube videos and the consensus is it's absolutely doable--as long as the cables are identical lengths! But you probably already know that!



Yeah, reception can be tricky if you don't have line of sight to the transmitter. You can have one-edge reception (signal bounces of one obstruction to get to you), two-edge reception (signal bounces of two obstructions to get to you), leaves on trees, especially if wet, can have an effect. Then we have your situation where atmospherics of the passing storms apparently reflected the signal enough for you to pick it up. :)
 

FTA4PA

Satellite Guys Family
Lifetime Supporter
Nov 13, 2013
4,481
2,365
Central Pennsylvania
Well, sh*t! See? This is all the stuff I'm learning! I would never have guessed that!

I'm leaning towards a second antenna: I've been googling and watching youtube videos and the consensus is it's absolutely doable--as long as the cables are identical lengths! But you probably already know that!
Yes, that would be one option. Setting that up could be tricky though as reception on one antenna can cause issues with the other and vice versa if they are not exactly in phase. Since you are already using a four bay antenna another option would be to upgrade to an 8 bay (dual quad). Might be enough to lock that elusive channel.


This one can be used to pick up signals in two different directions or to get a stronger signal from one direction. You might also consider a directional antenna if all your stations are located in one direction. :)
 

Wescopc

SatelliteGuys Pro
Pub Member / Supporter
Lifetime Supporter
Sep 11, 2005
1,869
180
Canby, Oregon
This is why I always liked installing satellite dishes as opposed to OTA antennas. When locked onto a satellite - you always had a LOS (Line of Site) that worked. When installing a OTA antenna even with a LOS - multi path will sometimes create an inconsistent signal!
Bob
 

JSargeSter

Member
Feb 28, 2016
5
1
Florida
@FTA4PA

How much distance do you have between the ODU and 3x4, then between the 3x4 and your receivers? Just curious of what kind of attenuation you are seeing with the 3x4.



This is my setup that I installed myself. I have a mast-mounted amp for my antenna to boost the OTA signal before distribution. The OTA coax and the Orby coax are fed into a Zinwell SAM-3402 multiswitch which then feeds our four Orby receivers. I also have ASKA PT-1 surge supressors on both coax inputs. Here is a pic of my connections.

View attachment 146033
 

FTA4PA

Satellite Guys Family
Lifetime Supporter
Nov 13, 2013
4,481
2,365
Central Pennsylvania
@FTA4PA

How much distance do you have between the ODU and 3x4, then between the 3x4 and your receivers? Just curious of what kind of attenuation you are seeing with the 3x4.
Sorry for the late reply. Our living room tv/monitor's backlight kicked last night so checking Sat Guys was backburnered. :rollingeyes

Coax in from two combined antennas is less than 40 feet. The four runs out to the Orby receivers varies but I'd say shortest is about 25 feet and longest is about 45 feet.
 

solarvic

SatelliteGuys Guru
Oct 17, 2019
134
55
Hadley, pa.
Question to claude!!! Or anyone that knows! When you have an orby installer install the dish, Do you still get the ota antenna also? I bought the instalation kit and an antenna came with the dish. I didn,t use it because the dish is only about 3 1/2 feet high. But when I installed an outside ota antenna I tryed out the orby antenna for sheets and grins and was surprised I could get quite a few channels about 15 feet high. I would think it should work as good as that flat antenna the clueless is using. If he got the antenna maybe he should try it.
 
Last edited:

styxfix

Supporting Founder
Supporting Founder
Oct 7, 2003
625
27
Pacific Coast
Wouldn't it be easier to just move your antenna to it's previous spot. I would think there would be some evidence of where that would be
 
Top