Captain;s 1.2m on H-2-H mount

[1captain]

Have had this satellite kicking around for years, got to be at least 25-years old or more. an it was made by Northern Satellite Corp. an model is NSC12-1 ( all raised letters in back of dish top left of center). an had it from time to time on setting it on a Sats for a feed that I could not lock with other dishes that I have here, an it became a pain to move it all the time, real tight on its tuning, so came up with the idea to set it up on a mount an make it track the ark, an it works great, an what a learning curve this was. an I will try to share it with you for any 1 thinking about a H-2-H mount or polar mount.

Now all pictures are from my test pole in the ground 5 1/2 feet, an here I can get from Gal-18 over to Telstar-12, an can not get all transponders due to boat for T-12 an a tree for G-18, but can get most strong transponders.

now my 1st try to get it to track, I failed big time an was ready to cut this mount up an remake it if I had to. but after getting on the compt an doing some research I found out what I was doing wrong, all thanks to the Prodelin web site, read their instructions for a polar mount for a 1.8m dish, an with in 3 hours had this thing tracking great.

now this is how you need to treate a Offset-ku dish to track.
1st you need to find you're declination for you're given area, then add that to you're offset angle of the ku reflector, now you will add you're declination an the offset angle together this is you're declination adjustment, should be some thing like this 23.5 offset angle of dish + 3.9 declination for you're location = 27.4 degrees of declination to dial in. now this is how you set it up.

1st you will set you elevation of where you dish mount is going to pivote from to 90* or perfect vertical, now set you declination to what you have determined from a flat spot on the reflector to ( my case here 27.4*), an "Don't Move It" this is where I messed up. now set you're elevation to you're latitude of you're area. now you are ready to start checking signal, an treat it like a C-band now or a prime focus dish start with you're due south, peak it in for best signal using you're elevation adjustment, then you're far east an west, to max signal an snug bolt up on the pole cap, now go back to you're due south satellite an re peak it again with you're elevation adjust. now if you took the time set you're declination perfect from the beginning, you will be done in no time.

Also with these lager offset reflectors the beam is tight so I found it fairly easy to get it perfect, after I read the Prodelin manual. my first mistake was moving the total declination adjustment.

now if it doesn't track for you, go over you're declination adjust agin an make sure you have it dialed in right. an if you do an still not tracking, now either add 1/2 of a degree or take away 1/2 of a degree (keep note of wich way you go if you make it worse), now you will need to repeat you're due south an east to west peaking process all over agin. remember changing declination adjust mess all of you're previous peaking that you have done.

when you finaly get it, you will have 1 nice set up, where this 1 is going should be able to go as far west as i need (148 will not use it but it could hit it) an east to AltanticBird-3 might even hit Intelsat10-02.

in these pictures all mounts that where added to the CFI H-2-H mount are stainless steel along with 2 angles on the reflector, (this is all my welding an fab work, some done Tig an some stick) an all stainless bolts an nuts also. down here where I am at any thing will rust away.

 

[1captain]

Picture did not upload, on my post.
Here you go enjoy.

 

[phlatwound]

Wow, nice job and sweet fabrication!

Did you fabricate the entire mount from the ground up, or was it factory-built and you modified it? If factory-built, what brand is it?

 

[1captain]

Wow, nice job and sweet fabrication!

Did you fabricate the entire mount from the ground up, or was it factory-built and you modified it? If factory-built, what brand is it?

I did all the fab work welding an cutting, to get the 1.2m to fit on that mount, now that mount is from a CFI 12-foot mess dish an it had a 10k pot on it, that I convert over to work reed switch that is gear driven, bet some birdview guys will be asking about that, have 4300 coounts with a G-box from limit switch to limit switch.

 

[phlatwound]

I did all the fab work welding an cutting, to get the 1.2m to fit on that mount, now that mount is from a CFI 12-foot mess dish an it had a 10k pot on it, that I convert over to work reed switch that is gear driven, bet some birdview guys will be asking about that, have 4300 coounts with a G-box from limit switch to limit switch.

Very impressive, well done.

Yes, more pics and descriptions of your magnet wheel/sensor setup would be great!

 

[turbosat]

Very nice work captain. Are those lnb-support arms some you fabbed also?

 

[PopcornNMore]

Very nice!

 

[Anole]

Very nice - :up

I particularly like the LNB support arms. Looks like they are fine-adjustable, with threaded rod.
Don't know if that's stock or your addition, but is a great idea for getting to the focal point!
Thanks for giving us enough picture resolution to zoom in and see the details.

I've seen H-H mounts modified to carry offset dishes, so can guess which are the parts you've added.
A nice side-view shot, would highlight how your two threaded rods give the required down-tilt to the dish, to make it track properly.
Congratulations on such an ambitious job! - :up

Looked through my collection of dish pictures, but don't think I've ever run across an H-H mount like that.
Sure doesn't look like it'd ever carry a 12' dish! Must have been a light one.

Can't get a good guess on the diameter of your Plexiglas magnet wheel.
But it appears ya might have used 24 magnets.
And they're not exactly crowded together.
Must be pretty small ones. Did you press-fit, or glue them in?
(I've considered both ways, as well as molding them in, and casting them in)

Toss us some more pictures when you have the time.
Always enjoy a successful project.
Should be a source of encouragement for everyone! -

 

[1captain]

Very nice work captain. Are those lnb-support arms some you fabbed also?

Yes they are Turbo, those support legs came from a commercial VHF antenna that was on a police station here that I changed out years ago when did high tower work, I new day I would use them. they are sec#40 stainless tubing 1/2" OD, an taped 3/8" stainless tread rod in them with a jam nut. then have a pair of nuts on the outer (also fabed out of stainless) brackets that you can set you feed to center an even fine tune you're angle of the lnb, if you need to, all in all it is very adjustable the way I got those legs built.

 

[1captain]

Very nice - :up





Looked through my collection of dish pictures, but don't think I've ever run across an H-H mount like that.
Sure doesn't look like it'd ever carry a 12' dish! Must have been a light one.

Can't get a good guess on the diameter of your Plexiglas magnet wheel.
But it appears ya might have used 24 magnets.
And they're not exactly crowded together.
Must be pretty small ones. Did you press-fit, or glue them in?
(I've considered both ways, as well as molding them in, and casting them in)

Toss us some more pictures when you have the time.
Always enjoy a successful project.
Should be a source of encouragement for everyone! -

Thank You Anole.

The mount is Certified Industry's (CFI) think that they stop production around mid 80's, their dish was a cross between a ParaClips an a Radix, an they never work that well, very poor performers, an made cheep. have seen lots of them get ripped off that mount (where my 2 cross bars are welded) in high winds. what they had was 2 aluminium bars that thrue bolted on the top bar, an they would break or get cracked, just a poor desgin.

now that magnet wheel is made from 1/4" lexan, an I think have 22 magnets in it, with these magnets from what I have learned you always do a even # of magnet "never odd" reason is when they are put in the wheel need to have a push an pull effect on you're magnets an a odd # will you will have 2 pushers or pullers next to each other. a easy way to see this is put 2 magnets in you're hand then they will suck together, take 1 of the magnets an turn it around, an it will push away from that magnet, "push then pull".

no they are not glued, in just plressed in, made the wheel 1 night, had all holes drilled, put the magnets in freezer over night, then used drill press with a bar stock just to press them in. now they went in real easy, with the ice on them, which made me woirry about them comming out (even though I mike the magnet an drill bit .003 under size) but after all came up to room temp, they are not moving.

now this wheel is 3 3/4" in diameter, but the neat thing is the gear step up that is driving that wheel, about 2.6 or 2.7 to 1. it counts so fast on the G-box you can not see the last digit just a blurr. from my due south to east starting a 0 on G-box it counts to 2162, now back to 0 an run it to the west 2146 to my west limit switch. the reason why I wanted a high count is because of this dish with its tight pattern, orginaly had a smaller magnet wheel running from the worm drive an only had 500 counts on each side of due south, an a bum east or west would louse signal, now with it high count it takes about10 to 15 counts on each side of a satellite before you louse signal.

now I even called Sadoun an spoke with Steven about this high count on a G-box an he has never heard of any one running that high of a count, but he said that it should work. because it will support 2000 count on each side of the ark ( 0 ), an just to let you all know it will count higher than 2000. when I get done playing with it on the ground an pole mount it up above the roof, will try to start at 0 on my west an program satellite into the 3000 to 4000 count just to see how the G-box likes it.

here is a better picture of the wheel.

 

[Anole]

Oh, I'm 100% with you on the high counts!
The more counts between birds, the better.

We were happy to see the Gbox come to market with a higher advertized count than the older Vboxes.
I just didn't realize you could go beyond ±2000.
So, thinking we were constrained, I was grudgingly happy with a 24 magnet wheel on the Birdview.
And, I was concerned whether we had the room around the rim to put 32 magnets...
If it'll do ±3000 or ±4000 counts, then the sky's the limit.!. - :up

The other feeling I was getting was that the Gbox could handle very fast counts reliably.
You've certainly shown that to be true. Thanks!
Ain't modern technology wonderful?
Doubt many 4DTV receivers would deal with your mount, though.

I had a backup plan, if the count rate was too high.
Having done some research some years ago for a buddy's model rail road, I saw how much torque you could deliver to a DC motor and how slow it could go, if you just chopped the power supply.
Glad that won't be necessary, since the Gbox can keep up with the rapid slew and fast counts!

Of course, the mechanism must be able to stop on a single magnet position without overshooting.
I trust that's not a problem.?.

Doesn't look like your camera wants to focus too closely, but it's got great resolution and quality, so if you'll pull back maybe 3..4 feet and shoot the mount from the sides, it'd be instructive to see your handiwork.
You've certainly done what a manufacturer would do, and well beyond what I'd have considered to do in the garage.
Again, kudos! -

 

[Mr Tony]

very nice pics

 

[1captain]

Yes so far the G-box handles these counts real well, but let say that I travel over past a few satellites, like from G-18 to AMC-9, an AMC-9 is at count 232 position 9. what the G-box will do is start to stop at 232 but when it does stop it may be 226 or some thing close to that #, then the G-box will start back up an stop right on 232 position #9, this all happens in about a second. but if I go from AMC-9 to AMC-5 this doesn't happen it only happen when you start traveling over about 15 degrees of satellite space, an the H-2-H mount is cooking.

This was my 1st time with that camera its the wife's see got it for X-mass an the 1st for me to use it an post picture's realy easy, wasn't as hard as I thought it would be, an I think that I was just to close with the camera.

Now Anole to go with a large mag wheel in a birdview like 24 or 32 magnets will be hard to clear the plastic cover an the steel side plate. I have a birdview worm drive sitting on the work bench now at my shop that I going to try to do a gear step up but with 2 idler gears an use the magnet wheel that I 1st made for this mount which is a 14-magnet wheel, with the same spaceing. the problem that I have ran into when you start getting the magnet close together an run them fast is that I see a over lap on my Sencor scope, but have found with about a 3/16" space it cleans up the pulse.

also stop an think about this how was the orginal birdview done with a pot, the pot was gear driven which is easy, an you can change the speed of the magnet wheel with larger or smaller gears, not only that but they are cheep to buy or scrounge.

 

[1captain]

My 1.2m Grew Up to a !.8m

my 1.2meter has worked flawless for well over the last year or so, but all good things will come to a end or in this case will become better. so had to bring this post back to give you guy's a heads up on what can happen when in searching for weak signals. now all of the north American satellites where great with the 1.2meter, but on some of the eastern satellites it was a little short on signal but still lock an played every thing I put it on.

also on another note, if you read back threw this old post, I was very concerned about the G-Box that it could not handel such a high count. well it has an it proves just how good of product the G-Box really is. since it was put on it's the pole up over the roof, from the test pole location an programed it to a SV-8000, in well over a year ago, an no updatting of the satellite positions need to be done at all threw out it's time. but what I did notice is that some of the satellites that hot signals with the 1.2m needed to be touched up a few clicks after the change over to the 1.8meter.

when I started running threw the satellites in the north American ark I was very shock on the amount of signal that was being displayed by the SV-8000. just about every satellite that had a quality level of 80 to the 90's are solid on 100Q now, an the TP's that where in the 50's into the 70's are now running in the upper 80's & well into the 90's. what a big difference I noticed right away. then I started looking to the east, an became even more amazed, like on Amazonas @ 61 only had 2 TP's that where data, did a blind scan an pick up TP's that I did not have before. then started looking farther east pulled a scan on IS-905 an wow every TP was sitting on 100 for Q, then look over at Telstar-12 some of the TP's that where weak before, are not now with nice hot signal.

so going from a 1.2meter to a 1.8meter is a very big increase in signal, some thing that I knew but just did not realize how great that is was going to be, untill I started going threw satellites that I have used in the past.

now this was 1 of the easyest dish change outs that I have did in a long time. the way I handeled it was put the 1.2m on AMC-9 (my closest satellite to due south) an pick the 1.2m off from its mounting hardware that held it on the H to H mount. now I already had cut the azel mount off the Channel Master's back fram, then just measured the hole location for the 2 stainless angles that where bolted to the 1.2m an then drilled 4-holes to 17/32" in the CM back fram to match the angel spacing. then cut 4 stainless spacers from bar stock an drill them out to 17/32" on center. bolted the back fram with the mounting angles on to the 1.8m an then hung that dish on the H to H mount. the only adjustment that need to be done was to re-set the declination & offset angle on the 5/8" stainless rods, andjust to peak signal. then started checking the far ends of my ark AMC-21 an Telsar-12 both where spot on. from the time I hung it till pick all the tools up an was finished under 3 hours.

now here are some picture for you all to enjoy.
the 1st picture was from before I started on this dish change out.
2, 3, an 4 was the removal of the 1.2meter.
picture 5 I tried to take from the same spot as the 1st to give a size reference.
8th picture is of the mount how I fitted the 2 angel brackes to the CM back-fram
the last picture is it sitting on Telstar-12

 

[Anole]

Well, my hat's off to anyone crazy enough to swing a six foot solid ... on an H-H ... for Ku only! - :up
I'll bet you're the envy of your local TV stations! -

I see the tool you used to get it into place.
Did you have some help or do it by yourself?
Can you tell us approximately what the dish 'n mount weighed?

Thanks for a great story 'n pix!
Hard to believe, but there it is.

 

[Babadem]

Very nice and impressive work, Captain!!

 

[crackt]

i wish i had that setup. looks great.

crackt out,.

 

[1captain]

Well, my hat's off to anyone crazy enough to swing a six foot solid ... on an H-H ... for Ku only! - :up
I'll bet you're the envy of your local TV stations! -

I see the tool you used to get it into place.
Did you have some help or do it by yourself?
Can you tell us approximately what the dish 'n mount weighed?

Thanks for a great story 'n pix!
Hard to believe, but there it is.

Thanks Anole.
the 1,8m or 6-foot solid is nothing to run on a H to H mount, it has a low amp draw of 1.1amp.
I even run a 10-foot solid on a H to H mount (ChannelView) on a Birdview mount.
an the weight on that is in the 400 lbs range.

ya the gin pole is a must to do satellite work, just had to put a new winch on it, they wear out about every 4 to 5 years of use.
no did the dish change out all my self.
now the weight around 150 to 200 lbs, with the back fram an mounting hard-ware.

an believe it it works a lot better than it looks it is a smoker for signal.

 

[phlatwound]

Great job Captain, that project gives me some new ideas, now I just need some free time. :up

 

[Sadoun]

Impressive. I like your dish farm.