Edision SES3 103W Transponder 19 (12080 H 29970 3/4)

[OswaldFTA]

Hi

I would need the help of a good Samaritan!!!

I'm struggling to lock the transponder 19 at SES3 (12080 H 29970 3/4). The Transponder 22 is a piece of cake (12145 V 20000 3/4). With this last one I get a SNR of 93% 14.2 dB, AGC of 100%. But for transponder 19, after a fine manual tuning of Azimuth, Elevation and skew I get roughly a SNR of 67%, 10 dB with a AGC of 97%, so the signal is coming and going constantly (pixeling and not locking).

My setup for this satellite is a fixed 90 cm (36") dish (an old DirecTV dish modified to work with a universal LNB). The LNB is a GeoSat Pro UL1PLL.

I've seen a post where a member compared 8 different types of LNBs and the signal this member gets using the same size dish, but different LNBs manufacturers, is a SNR of 12 dB for Transponder 19 and 15 dB for transponder 22. This user is located in Connecticut, I'm in south Florida, according to Lingsat we are in the same footprint with a power of 48 dBW (60 - 75 cm recommended dish).

I'm thinking to get another type of LNB, maybe an Inverto Ultra black model from Europe, to improve the SNR.

I do not understand why such difference in SNR values between Transponder 19 and 22. I have noticed that the Transponder 19 is quite sensible to the LNB skew.

Could it be that although the dish is a 90 cm one (36"), it was designed for the DirecTV LNB and is not "illuminating" correctly the GeoSat LNB? I tried 4 different GeoSat LNB and the result are almost the same.

Thanks in advance!!

 

[Brct203]

Hi

I would need the help of a good Samaritan!!!

I'm struggling to lock the transponder 19 at SES3 (12080 H 29970 3/4). The Transponder 22 is a piece of cake (12145 V 20000 3/4). With this last one I get a SNR of 93% 14.2 dB, AGC of 100%. But for transponder 19, after a fine manual tuning of Azimuth, Elevation and skew I get roughly a SNR of 67%, 10 dB with a AGC of 97%, so the signal is coming and going constantly (pixeling and not locking).

My setup for this satellite is a fixed 90 cm (36") dish (an old DirecTV dish modified to work with a universal LNB). The LNB is a GeoSat Pro UL1PLL.

I've seen a post where a member compared 8 different types of LNBs and the signal this member gets using the same size dish, but different LNBs manufacturers, is a SNR of 12 dB for Transponder 19 and 15 dB for transponder 22. This user is located in Connecticut, I'm in south Florida, according to Lingsat we are in the same footprint with a power of 48 dBW (60 - 75 cm recommended dish).

I'm thinking to get another type of LNB, maybe an Inverto Ultra black model from Europe, to improve the SNR.

I do not understand why such difference in SNR values between Transponder 19 and 22. I have noticed that the Transponder 19 is quite sensible to the LNB skew.

Could it be that although the dish is a 90 cm one (36"), it was designed for the DirecTV LNB and is not "illuminating" correctly the GeoSat LNB? I tried 4 different GeoSat LNB and the result are almost the same.

Thanks in advance!!

hi, i'm the author of the post you are refering to. Right now getting 14.8 dB on 12145V, 11.9 on 12120H and 11.5 dB on 12080H, using the Inverto Home Twin LNBF. Those are what I get with perfectly clear sky. Numbers are usually slighly better in the winter (lower overall thermal noise? lower humidity in the atmosphere?). However those numbers do vary quite a bit, sometimes down to 13 for 12145V and 10 for 12080H.

I think it's not abnormal to see varied SNR on the same satellite. The reception equipment is just one part of a much bigger equation, and we just don't know what is used on the uplink. Also the satellite might not be showing the same performance on horizontal as on vertical. I think we've always seen H channels on SES3 being a bit weaker than V.

One thing to check... the geometry of your dish. Little story... I have a few 90cm Fortec Star dishes, that a generous forum member gave me a few months ago. He had gotten them from someone else years ago. They look perfect, hardware still in the boxes etc. I assembled them, started using a few of them (on SES3, among others , and for the LNBF testing). It's only a bit later, when PBS was moving to 99W and their signaal was very weak, that I noticed something odd... The LNBF did not seem to be perfectly centered. It was quite hard to see when in front of the dish, but quite visible when looking from above or below. I took a tape measure, and carefully compared the distance from the rim of the LNBF feedhorn cap, to the respective sides of the dish, and sure enough there was a difference of 1 inch! I corrected that by adding a few washers between the reflecor and its mount, until I got the same distance on each side. And reception improved by about 1dB! and it must have been a factory defect as all 3 or 4 identical dishes had the exact same problem.

In your case it could indeed be that the LNBF built-in scalar does not match the geometry of the dish. It could be picking up some noise on the sides of the dish, that might not cause problems on the strong and comparatively simple QPSK signal of 12145, but causing trouble on weaker and more complex 8psk signal at 12080

I would also not rule out the possibility that the coverage map of the satellite is not 100% accurate, and that there's s light mismatch between H and V coverage.

 

[hdtvman]

Hi

I would need the help of a good Samaritan!!!

I'm struggling to lock the transponder 19 at SES3 (12080 H 29970 3/4). The Transponder 22 is a piece of cake (12145 V 20000 3/4). With this last one I get a SNR of 93% 14.2 dB, AGC of 100%. But for transponder 19, after a fine manual tuning of Azimuth, Elevation and skew I get roughly a SNR of 67%, 10 dB with a AGC of 97%, so the signal is coming and going constantly (pixeling and not locking).

My setup for this satellite is a fixed 90 cm (36") dish (an old DirecTV dish modified to work with a universal LNB). The LNB is a GeoSat Pro UL1PLL.

I've seen a post where a member compared 8 different types of LNBs and the signal this member gets using the same size dish, but different LNBs manufacturers, is a SNR of 12 dB for Transponder 19 and 15 dB for transponder 22. This user is located in Connecticut, I'm in south Florida, according to Lingsat we are in the same footprint with a power of 48 dBW (60 - 75 cm recommended dish).

I'm thinking to get another type of LNB, maybe an Inverto Ultra black model from Europe, to improve the SNR.

I do not understand why such difference in SNR values between Transponder 19 and 22. I have noticed that the Transponder 19 is quite sensible to the LNB skew.

Could it be that although the dish is a 90 cm one (36"), it was designed for the DirecTV LNB and is not "illuminating" correctly the GeoSat LNB? I tried 4 different GeoSat LNB and the result are almost the same.

Thanks in advance!!

How about a Good Samaritan from across the state
I'm in Southwest FL and here is what I get with my setup:
AMIKO_Mini_4K_S2X_1.0.56, Channelmaster/PrimeStar 1 meter H2H dish, DMS International ASC321-2 Universal KU LNBF, 0.5dB noise, 55dB gain

12.145 V 84%Q excellent
12.120 H 80%Q good
12.080 H 78%Q ok
11.910 H 67%Q marginal (very iffy for me when transmitting, NBC MUX TX13 feeds Ch.1-4)

 

[OswaldFTA]

hi, i'm the author of the post you are refering to. Right now getting 14.8 dB on 12145V, 11.9 on 12120H and 11.5 dB on 12080H, using the Inverto Home Twin LNBF. Those are what I get with perfectly clear sky. Numbers are usually slighly better in the winter (lower overall thermal noise? lower humidity in the atmosphere?). However those numbers do vary quite a bit, sometimes down to 13 for 12145V and 10 for 12080H.

I think it's not abnormal to see varied SNR on the same satellite. The reception equipment is just one part of a much bigger equation, and we just don't know what is used on the uplink. Also the satellite might not be showing the same performance on horizontal as on vertical. I think we've always seen H channels on SES3 being a bit weaker than V.

One thing to check... the geometry of your dish. Little story... I have a few 90cm Fortec Star dishes, that a generous forum member gave me a few months ago. He had gotten them from someone else years ago. They look perfect, hardware still in the boxes etc. I assembled them, started using a few of them (on SES3, among others , and for the LNBF testing). It's only a bit later, when PBS was moving to 99W and their signaal was very weak, that I noticed something odd... The LNBF did not seem to be perfectly centered. It was quite hard to see when in front of the dish, but quite visible when looking from above or below. I took a tape measure, and carefully compared the distance from the rim of the LNBF feedhorn cap, to the respective sides of the dish, and sure enough there was a difference of 1 inch! I corrected that by adding a few washers between the reflecor and its mount, until I got the same distance on each side. And reception improved by about 1dB! and it must have been a factory defect as all 3 or 4 identical dishes had the exact same problem.

In your case it could indeed be that the LNBF built-in scalar does not match the geometry of the dish. It could be picking up some noise on the sides of the dish, that might not cause problems on the strong and comparatively simple QPSK signal of 12145, but causing trouble on weaker and more complex 8psk signal at 12080

I would also not rule out the possibility that the coverage map of the satellite is not 100% accurate, and that there's s light mismatch between H and V coverage.

Thanks for your recommendations. I think that:
1. My dish is not big enough for this transponder.
2. My dish was not designed for the LNBF that I'm using (illumination issues). I move manually the LNB to get the best focus and the current position was the best one.
3. The LNB is not the best for this reception condition. I will try to get an Inverto Ultra Black.

Thanks again for your help!!

 

[OswaldFTA]

How about a Good Samaritan from across the state
I'm in Southwest FL and here is what I get with my setup:
AMIKO_Mini_4K_S2X_1.0.56, Channelmaster/PrimeStar 1 meter H2H dish, DMS International ASC321-2 Universal KU LNBF, 0.5dB noise, 55dB gain

12.145 V 84%Q excellent
12.120 H 80%Q good
12.080 H 78%Q ok
11.910 H 67%Q marginal (very iffy for me when transmitting, NBC MUX TX13 feeds Ch.1-4)

Hey, neighbor. Thanks for the info. It seems that my dish is too small to get a reliable signal on transponder 19. Where did you get the 1 m dish?

 

[hdtvman]

I've actually had the 1 meter since the Primestar service shutdown way back in the 90s and the original Japan Radio dual polarity/cable lnb still works. I replaced it recently with a Universal DMS lnbf I had around for 10 years or so.

 

[OswaldFTA]

A question: Is the signal on (12.080 H 78%Q ok) stable?

 

[Bassplayer 1964]

I am having a similar problem with 12120 on 103. Almost daily I get some sort of interference that completely wipes out the signal. Normally I'm around 11-13 C/N but when whatever the heck this is it is very erratic. I don't thing the wonderful 5G would bother KU unless there is a radio that is throwing spurs of some kind and even with that I'm not line of sight on any cell site. In fact I have 0 cell service anywhere on the property here. I've been chasing this for most of the year. It seems to happen around the time Mccloud records on Saturday and during Emergency on week days. I have swapped several LNB,s as well as trying new cable and fittings and DISEQC switches. I'm gonna try moving the actual dish farther west but I don't hold much faith in that happening. This has been a microwave nightmare so far. There is nothing new except the power company AMR system that is going in. I have noticed this mess has raised the noise floor on the 900 Mhz band. Good Luck and keep us posted

 

[arlo]

Perhaps the time of year for your latitude when you get sun obliteration?? Perhaps.
Try this. Hit the sat that loses signal. Wait until it starts to come back. Aim west a touch to another sat. and wait. See if it fades out like clockwork.
Happens 2X a year.

 

[OswaldFTA]

How about a Good Samaritan from across the state
I'm in Southwest FL and here is what I get with my setup:
AMIKO_Mini_4K_S2X_1.0.56, Channelmaster/PrimeStar 1 meter H2H dish, DMS International ASC321-2 Universal KU LNBF, 0.5dB noise, 55dB gain

12.145 V 84%Q excellent
12.120 H 80%Q good
12.080 H 78%Q ok
11.910 H 67%Q marginal (very iffy for me when transmitting, NBC MUX TX13 feeds Ch.1-4)

Hello

Is the signal on transponder 12.080 H stable or have pixeling?

 

[hdtvman]

Hello

Is the signal on transponder 12.080 H stable or have pixeling?

DW comes in strong even though it's only 78 on quality. NTA is also 78 but has some video pixelation sometimes, although this pixelstion is from crap video encoding, super compressed bad video, rather receive antenna issues.

 

[OswaldFTA]

DW comes in strong even though it's only 78 on quality. NTA is also 78 but has some video pixelation sometimes, although this pixelstion is from crap video encoding, super compressed bad video, rather receive antenna issues.

Thanks for the info. I really appreciated. I'm deciding which dish to get, 1.0 m or 1.2 m. It seems that 1.0 m is more than enough.

 

[tomdsats]

I've read somewhere that the SES3 satellite; home to Microspace and DW (12080H29970) is going End of Life at the end of July 2024. Microspace has moved to SES1 at 101W, but DW is still broadcasting on SES3!

From everyone's experience with satellites going EOL - what is the general deal with satellite replacements? Will something go into SES3's location in the sky and the TPs (that were migrated away) will migrate back? I'm specifically curious around DW - as it is a notable news station: in my mind, I would've imagined them being more proactive in ensuring continuous coverage.

 

[Keith Brannen]

I've read somewhere that the SES3 satellite; home to Microspace and DW (12080H29970) is going End of Life at the end of July 2024. Microspace has moved to SES1 at 101W, but DW is still broadcasting on SES3!

From everyone's experience with satellites going EOL - what is the general deal with satellite replacements? Will something go into SES3's location in the sky and the TPs (that were migrated away) will migrate back? I'm specifically curious around DW - as it is a notable news station: in my mind, I would've imagined them being more proactive in ensuring continuous coverage.

Correct, last information I have seen is that EOL is at the end of the month. Since DW hasn't moved yet, don't know what they will be doing (moving or ceasing broadcast). Usually, when satellites reach EOL they no longer use any fuel to correct the drift and go into an inclined orbit, which increases as time goes on. There may still be signals broadcast from the satellite (for example, short term feeds, games, etc., or data feeds).

SES already launched (and has been in position for a while) a C band replacement, and there will not be a replacement satellite for Ku band at the 103w location, yet another loss of Ku band capable satellites.