Channel Mapping on W5 at this time

[stargaze]

Read all 3 posts before you do anything listed in here.

I used a DSR-921 receiver for this test. The DSR-921 is a Canadian version of the 920 receiver.
The 921 was slaved to one of my other receivers which was on W5-700 at the time.

A master reset was done (options-6-7-7-8) then the key for a master reset was hit.

After rebooting the receiver and going to the reset sat limits I then programmed in all the available satellites that were there. They were as follows.

S2 - G6 - S3 – T4 – G7 – X7 – G3 -

T5 – G4 – S4 – W1 – A2 – E2 – M1 –

M2 – G9 – G5 – C3 – G1 – C4 – C1

Since W5 was not on the list I tuned to G9-18 on the 921 receiver since that was on my list of available satellites to choose from.
After a minute or two the 921 received a digital lock on G9-18 and a few minutes later the screen blinked a couple of times. When it did this the receiver no longer was showing G9 but it was now showing (G0).

Channel count from (options- 6-5) after a master rest was 490

The TDT count from Diagnostic screen G (options- 6- 0-5) and use the arrow key on the remote to go to “Diagnostic screen G” top line 5th set of numbers on the top line reading from the left was (520)

After a few more minutes the channel count went up to 719
Using (options- 6-4-4) I noticed that Satellite X0 was added and G9 was added.

Leaving the main receiver on W5 the slaved 921 did not have any other satellite map changes. Not even the W5 satellite was in the receiver.

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Continued on next post:
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[stargaze]

Read all 3 posts before you do anything listed in here.

An hour later I moved the dish to G1-03
I then took the 921 receiver and hit the guide button and immediately hit
(options-6-0-5) this is an old trick used to force the guide info to load fully.
Pressing the guide button then going to the diagnostic screens and staying there the receiver will continue loading the guide till it is full. Diagnostic screen F is where you can watch the guide info being loaded. From the left--- the 4th set of numbers/letters will show a (d); not look directly below the (d) on the 3rd line down, this three digit number will go lower, when it hits 35 or lower then the guide is fully loaded. Depends on your receiver how low it will go.
I arrowed through the different diagnostic screens and I noticed the channel count moving along with the TDT count.
Remember while locking a signal from W5 the TDT count was 520, now on G1-03 after loading up the generic satellites the TDT count jumped to 1745.
The channel count went from 719 to 4641.

After the guide was fully loaded on the main receiver and the 921 receiver I then programmed on the 921 all the satellite icons it just loaded: They were:
P3-P4-P1-P2-P9-K6-B6-K5-W9-K9-K3-L4-T6-L6-X3-L5-K4-K1-W5
R4-E2-A3-M5-E1-A1-T7-X9-W8-
CA-CB-CC-CE-CF-CG-KA-KB-KC-KE-KF-KG-
I1-IK
These satellite icons just listed above were NOT being transmitted on W5 (AMC 18 at 105° W) but from G1 (Galaxy 12 at 133° W).

After all this I moved the mail receiver back to the W5 Satellite and the 921 slaved receiver’s channel count went up by 5 to 4646.
The AI icon is no longer being transmitted on W5 so that testing is finished.
This means if you do a master reset now you will NOT receive the DMX channels that were on the AI icon!



Continued on next post…..

 

[stargaze]

Read all 3 posts before you do anything listed in here.
This is the 3rd post


This now leaves several questions to be answered. Here are just a couple.

1)If a master reset needs to be done on the 920 & 922 receivers to continue receiving programming from W5 after December 31st will all the satellite maps be sent from W5 (AMC 18 at 105° W) which include the generic satellite icons and all those channel maps?

2)Will the channel maps continue to be sent out on G0 (Galaxy 18 at 123° W) and /or G1 (Galaxy 12 at 133° W) as they currently are after December 31st?



If these questions are not fully answered by Motorola then this could basically render your receiver useless as a FTA receiver since not all the satellites would be in your receiver.


Here are a few basic tips for those who have more than 1 receiver.

1)if you have not already loaded up the channel maps this needs to be done now. Do not wait till the last minute. If you have already done so and even have the AI icon in your receiver then stay away from G0 & G1 and DO NOT do a master reset to your receiver if you are not intending to use it only to receive programming from W5 at the end of this year. So if you have a spare receiver I would allow it to receive the current maps then put it away.

2)If you do not intend to purchase programming from the Hits lineup on W5 I would not do a master reset to the receiver.

3)For those who do not trust Motorola, park your 920 or 922 receiver on a satellite that does not provide channel map changes and make sure you have your receiver set to NOT move for guide information at night on it’s own.

4)Something else to consider: (if you have 2 receivers and only 1 dish), If you have 2 receivers the manual will give you directions so that the remote from the main dish moving receiver does not affect the other (slaved) receiver. You could purchase programming on a “slaved” 4D-receiver but not on your main one as the main one would be used as a FTA dish mover, in case the channel maps are no longer being sent out which now include the generic channels. This way only the slaved receiver would have to have a master reset and your main dish moving 4D-receiver is still set up with all the satellites and channel maps. One heck of time saver to do it this way since you do not have to worry about setting up the dish limits and programming in all the satellites over again. This way you end up with 2 receivers, 2 remotes, each one controlling only 1 receiver.

 

[stargaze]

For those that may not know, the DSR-921 Star Choice receiver will pick up the US guide information without any authorization hits.
The DSR-920 & DSR-922 American receivers need to have the guide authorized before it will download the guide info.

Channel mappings is a separate entity and can be picked up at this time on
G0 (Galaxy 18 at 123° W) and /or G1 (Galaxy 12 at 133° W).

You do not need to have the receiver authorized to receive the channel maps.

 

[TMair]

I had asked this question on another thread.
A couple of other question that I have are:
Is SRL going to sell the same packages as those offered on Skyvision for the 410? If they are I am not sure the cost is worth the effort, to get the channels that I want I would have to buy one of the upper teir packages, I will need to see if I can get those channels from Comcast, I use them now for basic programming because of the savings on their internet packages, if the cost is less to upgrade I will do that.
After Motorola is out will there be any incentive for programmers to continue to broadcast DCII in a format that the 4Dtv can pick up? This is important to me because if not then useing the 4Dtv as an FTA receiver is pointless assuming any of those channels would go In the clear!
I am hopeing SRL will continue to sell the packages they have now with the channels that are available on W5, and not be locked into the packages that Skyvision sell.
Terry

 

[tvropro]

This is my 4d 922 current status.

My wonder is this. If we have to do a MR to get W5 to run on Comcasts EMM are we going to loose our generics? Motorola needs to give us the maps from G1 with the generics on W5, AI and any additional birds. As you can see I have a ton in my lists. My original download is from Jan 2006, never did a MR since new. Heck I still have X4.

 

[stargaze]

My wonder is this. If we have to do a MR to get W5 to run on Comcasts EMM are we going to loose our generics? Motorola needs to give us the maps from G1 with the generics on W5, AI and any additional birds.

AI icon is no longer being loaded at this time. If you have it then great but after a Master reset of your receiver it is gone.
I doubt Motorola will continue sending out the generic maps after Jan 1, 2011. There is no reason for them to continue doing so. None... Nada....Zippo.
They are out of the consumer side of the c-band business when they shut down the activation center on December 31st, and they will not spend money to continue doing something knowing they will not be compensated for it.
That is just basic business sense.

Hits may send out some channel maps but I would not hold your breath, all they are interested in is their channels not every satellite up there, especially the generics.

 

[TMair]

Mike Kohl said there are generic sats that will always be there even after a reset so we could use it as a dish mover for DVB but not a lot of sats there to use, so I am not sure about how effective it would be for that, he also said Moto would still be making money off of it, but I don't see how, and I doubt that those sats will have any channel info in them, I am still not convinced that I want to make the switch, I will have to see what SRL offers in the way of packages first.
Terry

 

[tvropro]

AI icon is no longer being loaded at this time. If you have it then great but after a Master reset of your receiver it is gone.
I doubt Motorola will continue sending out the generic maps after Jan 1, 2011. There is no reason for them to continue doing so. None... Nada....Zippo.
They are out of the consumer side of the c-band business when they shut down the activation center on December 31st, and they will not spend money to continue doing something knowing they will not be compensated for it.
That is just basic business sense.

Hits may send out some channel maps but I would not hold your breath, all they are interested in is their channels not every satellite up there, especially the generics.

We need to have Mike Kohl put in a request to see if Comcast can send us the current maps plus AI. The time is now to act and see if something can get done. I know it's technically possible we have to push like we did to get W5 to work on the 4D after 12-31. Never hurts to try.

 

[tvropro]

Mike Kohl said there are generic sats that will always be there even after a reset so we could use it as a dish mover for DVB but not a lot of sats there to use, so I am not sure about how effective it would be for that, he also said Moto would still be making money off of it, but I don't see how, and I doubt that those sats will have any channel info in them, I am still not convinced that I want to make the switch, I will have to see what SRL offers in the way of packages first.
Terry

After a MR even now there is no generics without the update from G1.

 

[stargaze]

Mike Kohl said there are generic sats that will always be there even after a reset so we could use it as a dish mover for DVB but not a lot of sats there to use, so I am not sure about how effective it would be for that, he also said Moto would still be making money off of it, but I don't see how, and I doubt that those sats will have any channel info in them, I am still not convinced that I want to make the switch, I will have to see what SRL offers in the way of packages first.
Terry

Re-read the first post here.
Those are the sats listed after a master reset on W5.
No generics on W5 are being transmitted.

To receive programming from W5 a master rest will have to be done on W5 to receive the Comcast EMM.

The generics as we know them now are only being sent out by Gi/Motorola's EMM. These are two very different data streams.

The money motorola will be making is not from the consumer C-Band market so with no $$$ from consumer c-band no new generic mappings or channel updates for the consumer, the only updates will be from the programmers themselves, and at that it will not be for the 4dtv receivers.

Motorola had 1 full time person assigned to keeping up with the 4dtv channel map updates and generic satellite updates,
After December 31 that position will no longer be in existence.

I really don't want to sound like a downer or anything but this is the basic truth of the matter, sooner or later people need to wake up and see what is really happening.

For those who want simple programming then W5 is their answer, for the hobbyist or satellite surfer, the answer is in a commercial DCII receiver and a decent DVB receiver.

 

[TMair]

Ok according to Mike Kohl, from the broadcast on the net, he said that after you do a master reset to receive the Camcast info you would still have Generic sats listed in your menue, so you could program those sats into position and use the 4Dtv as a mover, nothing else was implied, I would think there would be no channel info, probably just the 1-25 channels for the transponders, no guide nothing else.
As of right now there are FTA channels that the 4Dtv is capible of receiving, once you do an MR you will not be able to receive those channels, no one knows how long those channels will last, as for the money that Moto will be making I have no idea just passing along what Mike Kohl said.
My problem is that the programming from Skyvision seams to be on the order of those offered from Dish and Direct, with less choices, now it is me that doesn't want to sound like a downer but I can't see myself buying those packages, now if SRL will keep their programming packages that deal with W5 then I will be more then happy to keep my sub, I am not in love with the 4Dtv, I am in love with the ever shrinking versatility, and resonable programming, once that is gone my 4Dtv will either become a limited dish mover for what ever other receivers I have, or get, or it will become land fill foder, or I guess I could sell it to some one who does want to buy those packages.
Terry

 

[stargaze]

Ok according to Mike Kohl, from the broadcast on the net, he said that after you do a master reset to receive the Camcast info you would still have Generic sats listed in your menue, so you could program those sats into position and use the 4Dtv as a mover, nothing else was implied,

This is not true at this time.
A Master Reset on W5 will NOT add the generics to your list of satellite icons.
Go ahead and give it a try and you will see I am just giving you the plain truth. However be aware if you do this on W5 and you had the AI icon in your satellite list that too will go away, so no DMX channels on W5 will be listed, and going to G0 or G1 will not add the AI back in, however G0 & the G1 map data will add in your generic sats at this time, after December 31st I believe that data stream will end.

 

[tvropro]

Mike Kohl said Friday that there are about 25 satellites in when you do a MR and maps. He did not mention generics. The 4D does not load those out of the box. Now I wonder this... lets say you could upgrade before Dec 31 to CC data, did your MR on W5 got your programming then went to G1 you should have everything, right?

 

[mikekohl]

Thank you tvropro for setting the record straight, and as I remember it.
I did not mention generics, but will do so now. Several configurations of Master Resets were tried during testing, and I had the benefit of a map loaded for W5.
If you do a Master Reset while on G1, and then somehow added the specific map for HITS on W5, the channel numbers on W5 will be corrupted (a mix of 4DTV designations and HITS channel numbers). The guide will not work properly either.
After trying that experiment, I cleared everything and did a MR while on W5, and then add the W5 HITS channel map. W5 would change its name to AI and there were exactly 20 other satellite names left to use. No generics. No way to add them. What you got was 20 C-band satellite names in the 4DTV system. The only DC2 channels were those from the W5 maps in HITS channel format.

It will be a while before any further announcements are made about implementation and transition for 4DTV receivers. IF you would like to be certain that you are among the first to get the official scoop, register to be added to Skyvision's Email notification service, found on the website at Skyvision Satellite Equipment

Mike Kohl
Skyvision - Fergus Falls, Minnesota
EMail mkohl@skyvision.com

AND

 

[stargaze]

Mike Kohl said Friday that there are about 25 satellites in when you do a MR and maps. He did not mention generics. The 4D does not load those out of the box. Now I wonder this... lets say you could upgrade before Dec 31 to CC data, did your MR on W5 got your programming then went to G1 you should have everything, right?

You could give that a try to see if it would work but it is a 50/50 gamble.
I posted all the satellite icons listed in the receiver after a master reset on W5 in the first post in this thread.

All that is in the receiver will be:
=========================
S2 - G6 - S3 – T4 – G7 – X7 – G3 -

T5 – G4 – S4 – W1 – A2 – E2 – M1 –

M2 – G9 – G5 – C3 – G1 – C4 – C1

=======================
21 satellite icons:

No generic satellites:

Part of the work motorola will have to do is to get the W5 icon in the mappings for the 920 & 922 receivers since it is not there at this time for those receivers after a master reset on W5.

 

[stargaze]

Thank you tvropro for setting the record straight, and as I remember it.
I did not mention generics, but will do so now. Several configurations of Master Resets were tried during testing, and I had the benefit of a map loaded for W5.
If you do a Master Reset while on G1, and then somehow added the specific map for HITS on W5, the channel numbers on W5 will be corrupted (a mix of 4DTV designations and HITS channel numbers). The guide will not work properly either.
After trying that experiment, I cleared everything and did a MR while on W5, and then add the W5 HITS channel map. W5 would change its name to AI and there were exactly 20 other satellite names left to use. No generics. No way to add them. What you got was 20 C-band satellite names in the 4DTV system. The only DC2 channels were those from the W5 maps in HITS channel format.

It will be a while before any further announcements are made about implementation and transition for 4DTV receivers. IF you would like to be certain that you are among the first to get the official scoop, register to be added to Skyvision's Email notification service, found on the website at Skyvision Satellite Equipment

Mike Kohl
Skyvision - Fergus Falls, Minnesota
EMail mkohl@skyvision.com

AND

Thanks Mike for your response. I see that they may be doing the same as what happens with G9 when you boot a receiver up clean from a box. G9 changes to G0, so they will be doing something along this line for the 4d receivers on W5 when it comes time.

I did not think the generics would be left in the channel maps and this is the sore spot for many people.

 

[GreatFTA]

Thanks Mike for your response. I see that they may be doing the same as what happens with G9 when you boot a receiver up clean from a box. G9 changes to G0, so they will be doing something along this line for the 4d receivers on W5 when it comes time.

I did not think the generics would be left in the channel maps and this is the sore spot for many people.

You got that right.

 

[tvropro]

Generic solution

Thank you tvropro for setting the record straight,

Not a problem Mike. I agree with others here that without the generics the 4DTV is sort of useless for any DC-2 FTA fun. And what about the free stuff mapped in now on GB like Bloomberg, PBS Net on T4 etc. Is there a way that you could mention to the right people our concern about this? How hard would it be to add the free DC channels to the satellites downloaded and the generics? This is a great concern here and part of what the 4DTV was all about when it was released. For myself if it came down to having the AI (W5) channels and the other freebies especially the generics I would fore go subscribing at all. Can't live without the generic maps, many others feel that way too.

So Mike all of us here on Satellite guys hope you can possibly get Motorola to look into a solution. I have a hunch if you could add our current G1 maps with AI instead of W5 and had that data loading on W5 after a MR we would all be happy.

Thanks

 

[Inno]

IF you would like to be certain that you are among the first to get the official scoop, register to be added to Skyvision's Email notification service, found on the website at Skyvision Satellite Equipment

Mike, thanks for keeping us up to date. I checked out the website but I saw no active link to sign up for email notification. I am a current subscriber with Skyvision and I have been getting other emails, will this be sufficient or do I still have to sign up?