If your referring to Holland Patent, yes. Also called Trenton. I haven't lived in the areqa since I graduated from New Hartford in 67.
Decision Made: Charter Fiber Optics or Dish Network?
- Thread starter Spike
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There may also be some assumptions as to where CableCARD and cablecasting is going in terms of technology. If CableCARD is replaced (by AllVid or something else) or if cable goes MPEG4, will the Ceton tuner be capable of decoding it.
I'm still very dubious about your projected up-front costs.
Ceton works fine with MPEG4, some older Tivo's don't. Comcast in GA is rolling it out in a few weeks, so we'll know for sure very soon.
Who knows the fate of cable card. I think it still has several years left considering the huge installed base and cable companies' reluctance to spend money on new equipment. Already got my money out of it, so I'll cross that bridge when I come to it. I could throw all my equipment in the garbage tomorrow and still come out ahead.
Roughly every $1000 spent up front equates to about $10/month spread out over 7 years. I could spend nearly $6000 up front and still end up cheaper than Dish over the same period. Doesn't matter if you believe I spent only a few hundred bucks or not. In my wildest imagination, I can't imagine spending more than a couple hundred on home theater PC. Keep in mind a HTPC can be very low powered, needs no screen, keyboard or mouse, no wifi, no optical drive. My first HTPC actually cost me $50 on ebay. I did upgrade the hard drives, and video, but that's it. My first tuner was about $75, my last was $150. My extenders ranged from $50 to $100. Doesn't Dish charge $100 for additional Joeys and even more for additional Hoppers? I considered the upfront cost of extenders versus Joeys to be a wash.
Anyway, the only way I could see Dish beating what I've got is if I worked for them.
Depends on the customer, most Joeys are free and 2nd hopper is free to $50. My sister upgraded last year from 722 and 612 to 1 HWS, 1 standard hopper and a joey and had no costs other than 2 yr commitment. My other sister did 2 hoppers and 2 joeys with no costs other than the commitment. I've been offered free upgrades on my account but would rather stay with my owned 722 and 211's
Thanks for the clarification. Guess things have changed in the few years I've been gone. Sounds like something I need to explore for my parents. Their DirecTV contract is up, and a WMC system like mine would be too complicated.
mdavj,
Too bad that your parents don't have access to Charter's Fiber Optics TV. It's the best picture that I've seen in years. Of course the picture quality may differ from what I see, depending on where a person lives. I just know, this is really really high quality HD TV, and I am loving it. No longer do I have football fields of grass that are dancing with video noise and peoples faces that look like paste. I was blind sided by Fiber Optics' sudden appearance in my neighborhood and now it would really be hard to go back to anything else. It's that good. Like I said, it would be great if your parents had access to Fiber Optics TV as well. And from what I'm hearing, Charter will have TVCloud menus and guides in just a matter of a few months. That is supposed to be very easy to use, once it's here. Of course, you know their situation far better than I. So, Dish might be the better choice for them.
Too bad that your parents don't have access to Charter's Fiber Optics TV. It's the best picture that I've seen in years. Of course the picture quality may differ from what I see, depending on where a person lives. I just know, this is really really high quality HD TV, and I am loving it. No longer do I have football fields of grass that are dancing with video noise and peoples faces that look like paste. I was blind sided by Fiber Optics' sudden appearance in my neighborhood and now it would really be hard to go back to anything else. It's that good. Like I said, it would be great if your parents had access to Fiber Optics TV as well. And from what I'm hearing, Charter will have TVCloud menus and guides in just a matter of a few months. That is supposed to be very easy to use, once it's here. Of course, you know their situation far better than I. So, Dish might be the better choice for them.
Tivo is apparently working on this with the cablecos. All HD Tivos (except the HR10-250) are mpeg4 capable, but it looks like only the Premier and Roamio will get software to enable the viewing of such content.
http://support.tivo.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/2921
If I could get this or FIOS, and I didn't have to deal with SDV, I would get a Tivo Roamio Pro and a Mini and be very happy.
What exactly is Charter Fiber Optic TV? Is it something new or just marketing spin? Just having fiber does not make it better. We have had a small fiber to the home company in the neighborhood for 15 years. I get them in every couple years for comparison to Dish as I actually used them about 13 years ago before switching to dish. The FTTH PQ is actually worse than dish. On still shots it appeared sharper but actually had more compression artifacts during motion. Dish hardware is also superior. Last time I compared to charter was two years ago.
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Here is what I was told. Charter ran Fiber Optic Cable in my area, which carries it's TV broadcasts by way of light to a transmission point a few blocks from my home. From there Cable is run from that location to the homes in my neighborhood and into our individual houses. It would be too expensive, according to what I was told, to run Fiber Optic cable to each individual home. So that was not done. What is run to the individual homes is the same cable that cable tv uses. (Other things such as Phone signals and Internet signals are also carried through the same process.)
From what I understand, which isn't much, I'm just learning, just because a Fiber Optic line is run doesn't mean the highest quality video is guaranteed to be presented through that line. Companies transmit whatever resolution they desire through those Fiber Optic lines. Someone please correct me, if I'm wrong. This is just what I've gathered from what I've read, been told by a Charter installer, a Charter Sales Rep. and through my own personal experience. So, when you say, the local company that ran Fiber Optic Cable in your area doesn't present a picture better than Dish Network, that may indeed be true. The transmission of the best possible picture is left to the discretion of each and every company, whether that is Dish Network, Directv, Charter, Comcast, Cox, Time Warner, Sudden Link etc.
Again, I'm no expert. I am really just learning. Please, someone correct me here where I may be in error. My ego is in no way attached to this convo.
Oh, one other thing... It might be worth your time to see if Charter has reevaluated the way they are now doing things in your neighborhood. They've substantially upgraded in mine. That is for sure.
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Going with a Tivo Roamio Pro and a mini is really a great way to go. For a number of reasons including immediate cash on hand, I went with two of the least expensive Roamios and a mini, and just the regular Charter HD Box in a room that gets very little use.
On a side note: Sometimes I get lost with abbreviations. I have a medical disability and I'm on medications that affect my cognitive abilities. What does your abbreviation SDV stand for? Wait! Here! Let me put on my dunce cap first. .... Ok... Go ahead. I'm listening.
Yep, spike, you pretty much got it under control. What you are describing from Charter is what we have had for a while. I personally see no improved PQ with Charter. I don't recall if you were able to directly compare the two side by side?
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Yes, I was able to do a direct side by side comparison between the picture I was getting with Dish Network through my former Hopper with Sling and Charter's Fiber Optic's Picture through a TiVo Roamio. I compared the two prior to my ending my most resent subscription to Dish Network. The same TV was used with both presentations. And the difference was considerable. I also compared Dish Network's Picture and Charters FIO's to Blue Ray Disc. The movie used was I Robot with all three venues. I couldn't tell any difference at all between the picture quality of Charter's FIO's and Blue Ray. But again, that is just my experience. It might be different for someone else.
I was with you until you said it was as good as Blu-ray 
What size TV and viewing distance?
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What size TV and viewing distance?
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I am using a 60" Panasonic LED at about 12' away. And hey, to each their own. Your experience may be entirely different. I just know what I'm seeing. #cleanshisglasses
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Spike, now that you've explained it, I realize I have Charter fiber too. I thought you meant FTTH (fiber to the home, which only Verizon FIOS is doing). But you're talking about FTTN (fiber to the node), which Charter has been rolling out nationwide for years. My parents have it too. Problem is if I add a TV package to their plan, they lose their $20/month internet they've had with Charter for years. They can't afford $50/month internet. So I have to find other options for TV. I could make WMC work cost-wise, but if anything went wrong, they'd be up a creek.
I understand what you're saying about picture quality. But if you look closely, you'll see a significant difference between cable/sat and bluray, especially during moving scenes. There simply isn't enough data transmitted over cable to equal bluray. When I measure, the max I see on Charter is 18Mbps, normally only 13Mbps of MPGE2 video. That 's a pretty healthy rate for broadcast quality 1080i, but nowhere near bluray rates.
I do agree however that the overall picture quality beats Dish and is equal to or better than DirecTV. On SD it beats both by a huge margin.
I understand what you're saying about picture quality. But if you look closely, you'll see a significant difference between cable/sat and bluray, especially during moving scenes. There simply isn't enough data transmitted over cable to equal bluray. When I measure, the max I see on Charter is 18Mbps, normally only 13Mbps of MPGE2 video. That 's a pretty healthy rate for broadcast quality 1080i, but nowhere near bluray rates.
I do agree however that the overall picture quality beats Dish and is equal to or better than DirecTV. On SD it beats both by a huge margin.
mdavej,
Ahhhhhhh! I just brought up I Robot again. Now I see what you're talking about. And you are correct. I had to look closely. But, there are slight shiver-ings (I know that is not a word) at the edges during motion scenes. Thank you for pointing that out to me. I really appreciate it.
(It's almost like a slight fading shadow on live t.v. very very slight ghost.. briefly.. then gone.)
Believe me, I understand about your parents not being able to afford a t.v. package. Because of my disability, I'm on a fixed income too.
Again, thanks for pointing out to me how to look for true quality in a picture. It really helped.
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Sorry, SDV is an abbreviation for Switch Digital Video, which is what bandwidth-starved cable companies implement to re-use frequencies in order to fit more channels on their infrastructure:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Switched_video
In my limited experience with it on my local Time Warner Cable outfit, it is poorly implemented, especially with Cable Card devices like Tivo.
