Fox v. Cablevision: STAGGERING increases!

You shouldn't? I don't think you pay for channels. Don't you pay for packages of channels?
Yes, channels that aren't broadcast to anyone with a $40 antenna that was picked up at Best Buy. I pay for the right to cable/sat only channels; however, broadcast networks that have always been available FOR FREE to people who put an antenna on the roof of their homes, should not require a retransmission fee. Why should any company have to pa a price to carry the FOX network in NYC or Philly, when FOX's O&O station puts out a free signal that requires the viewer to go to the store and buy a $40 antenna (that's a middle of the road outdoor antenna). So don't imply that I'm refering to FX, Nat Geo, or FSN, because I'm not. I'm refering to that network that I can get for free if tomorrow I told dish and any other provider to screw.

Also, those companies shouldn't have the right to charge me to view broadcast networks from my market as well.
 
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I pay for the right to cable/sat only channels; however, broadcast networks that have always been available FOR FREE to people who put an antenna on the roof of their homes, should not require a retransmission fee.
Fine. Dish Network can receive them, but not rebroadcast them. Just because they are available for free to anyone that can receive them doesn't mean they should be free to those who need to receive them.
The Fat Man said:
Also, those companies shouldn't have the right to charge me to view broadcast networks from my market as well.
Why not? The companies have created a service for which people pay. The study done in 1993 showed that more than half the people would expect that their bill would be halved if the channels weren't on the system.
 
Cablevision here in Connecticut pulled one on FOX today...

The Connecticut Cablevision systems all border on NY and had all NY locals... FOX yanked Channel 5 and 9 so Cablevision replaced the New York FOX channel with the Connecticut FOX channel which is not Fox O&O. :)
 
Cablevision here in Connecticut pulled one on FOX today...

The Connecticut Cablevision systems all border on NY and had all NY locals... FOX yanked Channel 5 and 9 so Cablevision replaced the New York FOX channel with the Connecticut FOX channel which is not Fox O&O. :)

HaHa, Nice!!!! Wonder what lawsuit Fox will hit them with for doing that? Are they allowed to do that? Wouldn't that fall under the same laws that prevent us from getting channels from outside our market?
 
Nope that law is only on satellite. Cable companies can bring in signals from neighboring DMA's.

Here in Hartford we use to get the Hartford locals, plus all the locals from Springfield Mass.

Perfectly legal for Cablevision to do that. :D
 
Why not? The companies have created a service for which people pay. The study done in 1993 showed that more than half the people would expect that their bill would be halved if the channels weren't on the system.

In 1993 people in my CITY got all exited that our cable company jumped from 36 to 66 channels. There were barely any special interest channels, 1 channel for each movie package(I might be wrong, I don't exactly know when HBO2 was launched), 1 Discovery channel/Disney Channel/MTV/ESPN/etc., ABC Family was still The Family Channel and not owned by Disney, No Out of Market Sports packages, PPV was still in its toddler stage, Starz didn't exist, and the list goes on and on. In 1993, nobody would ever expected that re-runs of Family Guy on Adult Swim would beat out NBC and CBS first run late night programming (did Cartoon Network even exist?) Networks were a huge part of viewing in 1993, so it was expected that networks be carried, as still is today; however, I would expect that people wouldn't (in 2010 based upon the wider variety of cable/sat channels (not networks) provided by virtually all providers) be expecting to pay less if they were missing 4 channels. A history discussion is the only place to pull up a study made in 1993. Espically, when the topic at hand has evolved beyond our wildest imaginations. Comparing TV in 1993 to TV in 2010 is like comparing a Modle T driver's expectation of what their car should do in 1915 to a Mustang driver's in 1969.
Fine. Dish Network can receive them, but not rebroadcast them. Just because they are available for free to anyone that can receive them doesn't mean they should be free to those who need to receive them.

I think you are missing my point. YES THEY SHOULD (here's the fine print) if said channel is able to be picked up by OTA to said viewer. Here's an example, WNYW is FOX's broadcast station in NYC. For me in Boston, Unless I hook up a mammouth sattelite to my TV, I can't get FOX 5 NYC. So, if I want that particular channel, and I want to use a pay service to get it, then I should have to pay for the provider to give it to me, and in turn FOX should get a cut of those profits because I'm paying to get their content. Now, untill the digital transition was completed, I could hook a metal coat hanger to my TV to get WFXT (FOX's broadcast station in Boston) and still can with the new digital antennas. I pay for satellite TV, proceeding also applies to cable subs. I'm paying for channels like TBS/FX/ESPN/RSNs/Encore/History Channel/etc. The satellite/cable provider said "hey you are in the Boston DMA" so they gave me WFXT with my sub. They shouldn't be allowed to charge me a penny to receive that station, and FOX shouldn't charge them to send me that signal, as long as it's provable that I can get WFXT without their assistance, which living in Boston, I have strong case. In the case Dish's package in the 230's for distance locals, yes, Dish should pay the networks and I should pay Dish for supplying that content. For me, who ordered satellite for the cable/sat only channels, ABSOLUTELY NOT! If you want to make the arguement of someone paying, Cable and Sat providers should be charging the networks rental space for taking up room on their systems and giving stronger signals to get their content out. I REALLY DON'T BELIEVE THAT (but makes more sense than charging for someone to relay (retransmit) a free service for free.

To wrap this up, I work at a school in a poor neighborhood. Almost every student is on a free lunch program. One day, one student didn't want his pear. He gave it another student. I got into the same arguement with the lunch police who demanded that the first student now pay for the pear, because it wasn't him who ate it. If you give it out for free, then you crap out of luck on how it's used. If the student charged his friend for the pear, I would have sided with the lunch lady, but to demand profit for something you gave for free and in turn was given again for free, makes you nothing but a money hungry greedy bastard. I think I made my point.
 
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Cablevision here in Connecticut pulled one on FOX today...

The Connecticut Cablevision systems all border on NY and had all NY locals... FOX yanked Channel 5 and 9 so Cablevision replaced the New York FOX channel with the Connecticut FOX channel which is not Fox O&O. :)

Scott:
So couldn't Cablevision put the CT channels on all over the NYC area? After all, we're all neighbors. :)
 
Yes, channels that aren't broadcast to anyone with a $40 antenna that was picked up at Best Buy. I pay for the right to cable/sat only channels; however, broadcast networks that have always been available FOR FREE to people who put an antenna on the roof of their homes, should not require a retransmission fee. Why should any company have to pa a price to carry the FOX network in NYC or Philly, when FOX's O&O station puts out a free signal that requires the viewer to go to the store and buy a $40 antenna (that's a middle of the road outdoor antenna). So don't imply that I'm refering to FX, Nat Geo, or FSN, because I'm not. I'm refering to that network that I can get for free if tomorrow I told dish and any other provider to screw.

Also, those companies shouldn't have the right to charge me to view broadcast networks from my market as well.

The problem is that the $40 antenna only works in close. A vast majority of people who get satellite are further out and require several hundred dollars worth of equipment and some expertixe in installation. At 45 miles out in hilly terrain I have about $500 invested in my antenna setup and even my most reliable OTA blips out occasionally which drives my wife crazy.

On another note, I posted this yesterday in the Dish - Fox thread, but I thought I should post it here also:

Boomer Esiason discussed the Cablevision-Fox dispute on WFAN this morning (yesterday) citing info he got from CBS insiders:

CBS Podcast Player

Fast forward in to about 10:45 to skip the Giants and Jets coverage. Apparently CBS insiders know what's going on here.
 
The problem is that the $40 antenna only works in close. A vast majority of people who get satellite are further out and require several hundred dollars worth of equipment and some expertixe in installation. At 45 miles out in hilly terrain I have about $500 invested in my antenna setup and even my most reliable OTA blips out occasionally which drives my wife crazy.

I agree that people in your position are in a crappy situation for OTA. I still don't think that anyone should charge you to pick them up, and FOX shouldn't charge a retransmission fee to any provider.
 
I agree that people in your position are in a crappy situation for OTA. I still don't think that anyone should charge you to pick them up, and FOX shouldn't charge a retransmission fee to any provider.

I still don't understand this line of thinking, they're a product like any other channel. You are entitled to be able to receive them OTA, but it's a value to a service to be able to retransmit them to you. Fox and all local channels in every market should be able to charge the providers to be able to offer that value. A provider not being able to service an area with local channels used to be a very big deal. Dish appears to be content to return to that era and many of you seem to think that's OK due to some vague 'unreasonable demands' Fox is making.

We don't know the facts, just that Dish enjoys these conflicts due to the frequency at which they happen, so I'm surprised to see all the blind loyalty to Charlie.
 
I still don't understand this line of thinking, they're a product like any other channel. You are entitled to be able to receive them OTA, but it's a value to a service to be able to retransmit them to you. Fox and all local channels in every market should be able to charge the providers to be able to offer that value. A provider not being able to service an area with local channels used to be a very big deal. Dish appears to be content to return to that era and many of you seem to think that's OK due to some vague 'unreasonable demands' Fox is making.

We don't know the facts, just that Dish enjoys these conflicts due to the frequency at which they happen, so I'm surprised to see all the blind loyalty to Charlie.

The providers are actually helping these OTA groups because they have been given a large area that they have exclusive rights to broadcast in, yet due to topography and other things people can't receive those signals OTA. The providers are actually increasing the viewership of the broadcast stations by expanding their signals into areas, not accessible under normal conditions.
 
osu1991 said:
The providers are actually helping these OTA groups because they have been given a large area that they have exclusive rights to broadcast in, yet due to topography and other things people can't receive those signals OTA.
So "the providers" then sign up customers because they are rebroadcasting content? Which adds how much to the providers bottom line? Sounds to me that this is less a symbiotic relationship than it is parasitical.
 
I just finnished watching the Giants - Phillies game. Obviously I am not a Cablevision subscriber. I watched it OTA on WOLF channel 56 from Scranton, PA. I noticed DirecTV is a proud sponsor. Shame on them!!

Even though I can still watch the games on WNYW Fox 5 from New York City via Dish Network, I WILL NOT!!

Go to HELL Fox and I hope you never see another exclusive major league contract of any kind ever again! My condolences go out to all the Phillies fans affected by this dumb $h*T!

P.S. I am a Met fan.

DirecTV is a Proud sponsor of Fox's HD too. "Fox High Def sponsored by DirecTV."
 
So "the providers" then sign up customers because they are rebroadcasting content? Which adds how much to the providers bottom line? Sounds to me that this is less a symbiotic relationship than it is parasitical.

I would think that Cable TV greatly increased the viewership of OTA stations in urban areas and also led to the successful launch of numerous "cable" channels such as ESPN and MTV and "pay" television such as movie channels. Satellite TV no doubt increased the viewership in rural America and brought cable and pay TV there as well. It would seem to me that both sides have benefitted. I do believe that Fox is entitled to be paid for their programming, but I'm not sure what they're asking is reasonable. What is true is that the final price will be somewhere between what they're asking and what Cablevision is offering. It's only entertainment, it's not life or death. If Sen. Kerry wants to get involved (why he would now I don't know - he has never replied to my emails on the Sat TV situation) maybe he should just mandate that Fox has to at least provide the news during negotiations and can shut the channel down for the rest of the day. No easy answers.
 
I still don't understand this line of thinking, they're a product like any other channel. You are entitled to be able to receive them OTA, but it's a value to a service to be able to retransmit them to you. Fox and all local channels in every market should be able to charge the providers to be able to offer that value. A provider not being able to service an area with local channels used to be a very big deal. Dish appears to be content to return to that era and many of you seem to think that's OK due to some vague 'unreasonable demands' Fox is making.

We don't know the facts, just that Dish enjoys these conflicts due to the frequency at which they happen, so I'm surprised to see all the blind loyalty to Charlie.

You got to my point. I feel that they shouldn't be of value to Dish or any other provider. I should be able to get my locals from a provider and only be charged for the use of their equipment. If they don't want to provide me with the locals without a fee for accessing the channels, then they shouldn't be able to retransmit them. I also believe FOX and the others waived their right to charge to retransmit their product when they gave the product out for free. THAT'S MY OPINION. You are entitled to disagree.

Here's a weird scenerio: McDonald's said that they are giving the Big Mac for free from today foward. I don't have a car, and because I'm a fat bastard, I don't want to walk. John Doe's Delivery service is created to bring lazy people, like me, assorted foods made from fast food resturants. I call them and say I want a Big Mac. The delivery service should only be able to charge me for the delivery service. They shouldn't be allowed to cahrge me for the free Big Mac. McDonald's doesn't have a right to p%ss and moan that this delivery service is bringing there Big Macs to people and charging for gas and the delivery drivers salary, because McDonald's chose to give its product away for free. Does the delivery service make profit off the orders of Big Macs? Yes. However, McDonald's waived its right to complain when they said FREE BIG MAC to everyone.

So, In my opinion, There is only way to justify a retransmission fee. Take away free broadcast television, and make it pay only. Keep OTA and tell the viewer, you can either pay for FOX by directly sending a check to us and we will equip your OTA to receive our services or you can subscribe to another service who we have a carriage agreement with and pick us up with other channels. If Dish is charging for FOX, then they owe FOX money, BUT THEIR PRODUCT IS FREE by one means, so don't complain that a service receives and just re-sends it just as free as you do in the first place.

EDIT
Has anyone noticed that FOX doesn't mention OTA options, they just tell you to switch providers. If Dish loses FOX, I'm IMing my FOX station and telling them excatly how as a Dish sub, I'm picking them up clearly.
 
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Swanni's take

News Analysis
MSG: What Cablevision Won't Tell You
By Swanni

Washington, D.C. (October 20, 2010) -- Facing a fifth day without access to Fox's programming, Cablevision has resorted to an unusual stunt to win public favor in its battle with Fox. However, Cablevision is conveniently forgetting to tell the public something about its little gambit.

The cable operator has called for Fox to agree to a third-party, binding arbitration to settle their fight over programming fees. Fox has rejected the request, noting that Cablevision itself did not call for arbitration this month when it forced Dish Network to remove the Cablevision-owned MSG from its lineup after their agreement expired. (MSG and MSG Plus are still not available to Dish subs.)

Fox said Cablevision was being "hypocritical" in calling for arbitration in its battle with Fox but not when the shoe was on the other foot in its fight with Dish Network.

So in response, Cablevision yesterdaySw

"MSG has never said it would not submit to binding arbitration. In fact, we are perfectly willing to go to binding arbitration to resolve the dispute with Dish," Cablevision said in a statement.

In my view, arbitration is the correct course in both disputes. And it's nice that Cablevision is suddenly realizing that in the Dish case.

But Cablevision is forgetting something in its effort to look like a company that doesn't want to deny consumers access to programming. The cable operator still refuses to allow Verizon's FiOS's TV service to carry the high-def signal for MSG.

Cablevision says it's on sound legal ground, claiming that it only has to provide the standard-definition signal. But Verizon is appealing the decision to the FCC and most industry observers believe that Cablevision is simply trying to deny the HD signal to Verizon's customers for competitive reasons.

“Cablevision is still refusing to provide us MSG in HD,” Verizon spokesman John Bonomo said yesterday. “It’s preventing us from carrying the Knicks and the Rangers in high definition."

So while Cablevision tries to pretend that it only cares about protecting consumer rights, remember the poor Verizon subs who can't watch their favorite teams in HD because Cablevision is being, well, arbitrary.

Final note: It's unclear this morning if Dish Network will take Cablevision up on its offer to go to arbitration.
 
So let me get this straight, Fox is having it out with Cablevision and DISH over broadcast rights of their sports and network stations. Cablevision is also giving DISH a hard time over broadcast rights to MSG? Man. Can't we all just get along?
 
What about Cablevision not allowing Dish to broadcast HD of MSG and MSG+ that has been available for several years? The only HD RSN in the NYC area is Sportsnet for the NY Mets.
 

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