Getting installed today. Still avoid diplexer???????

I

Iceman

Thread Starter
SatelliteGuys Family
Dec 18, 2003
82
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Georgia
I am getting Voom service installed today. My MAIN concern is getting all my locals. The good thing for me according to antennaweb, is that the antenna needs to point in only one direction to receive all of the local stations. What I mean by this is that all of my local station's towers are located in the same direction from here.

This should be an easy install for the installer. I did have Dish Network, but recently cancelled, so all the installer has to do is take down my dish that is pointed at 61.5 and install the Voom dish and install the OTA antenna.

I have already been approved for the antenna upgrade. The guy at Installs told me that it's a winegard. I don't know which model though. If you know what model number it is, please reply.

Here's what I am concerned about. I have read many post saying NOT to use the diplexer that the installers want to use because you will lose signal strength. Many of these post are before the newest software release so I really don't know if the newest software release helped remedy this situation. Is the diplexer still causing problems for OTA? If so, how much difference could it make? If I could get signals in the high 90's, would it cause it to dip to the low 90's or worse?

I am trying to figure out if I need to have the installer run a separate line for the OTA.

Thanks in advance for any info or advice you can give me.

Ice
 
C

CraziFuzzy

SatelliteGuys Pro
May 15, 2004
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regardless of the signal strength, a diplexer will stll knock aout 3dB off the signal. However, if you are running to more than one TV, that 3dB is lost in the splitting process, which you would lose without the diplexer and having to use a standard spliter instead. I don't see an issue with using a diplexer, especialy since all your stations are coming in the same direction. How far away are you though? and is it hilly terrain?

Chris
 
I

Iceman

Thread Starter
SatelliteGuys Family
Dec 18, 2003
82
0
Georgia
reply

CraziFuzzy said:
regardless of the signal strength, a diplexer will stll knock aout 3dB off the signal. However, if you are running to more than one TV, that 3dB is lost in the splitting process, which you would lose without the diplexer and having to use a standard spliter instead. I don't see an issue with using a diplexer, especialy since all your stations are coming in the same direction. How far away are you though? and is it hilly terrain?

Chris
Thanks Chris.
I live approximately about 42 miles from the station's towers. (I assume this distance is by "how the crow flys", not necessarily by the distance I would travel by car). Where I live, like most of Georgia, is hilly and covered with Pine and Oak trees.
 
scottie_h

scottie_h

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May 22, 2004
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Cologne, MN
I live pretty close to the same distance from the towers, and have never had any issues with the diplexor and two TVs...
 
I

Iceman

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SatelliteGuys Family
Dec 18, 2003
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Georgia
doesn't look like it's going to matter........

I doesn't look like it's going to matter cause nobody showed up and nobody called to tell me. This is the second time this week and final time I try to get Voom service. Hell, does anyone at that company know what's going on???

Guess I will just have tuck my tail and go back to Dish Network.
 
jame_g

jame_g

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Dec 13, 2004
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Richmond, VA
Well, that's why I ended up with Voom. Dish Network installers kept doing no shows, or calling two hours after they were supposed to be there. Even after I would receive 2 and 3 confirmation calls in the 1 or 2 days before. The Voom installer was on time, professional, and very helpful.

And all the satellite companies subcontract installs out. But after 5 cancellations over 2 months from Dish for my Dish Mover install, with indifferent customer service, and executive office representatives who never followed through and never called back when they said they would (3 different exec office reps), it was obvious that Dish didn't care about their customers. Even though I had been a subscriber for 5 years who paid out the *ss for my initial crappy install. My written complaint only received a meager form letter that simply screamed "we don't care".

Sounds like it's the pick of the draw for satellite service installs. But after a point, I just can't reward customer dis-service, so I understand how you feel.
 
R

robert luzzi

SatelliteGuys Guru
Nov 5, 2004
144
0
western pa.
i do a limited # of VOOM installs and was told to use the eq that was sent to me by voom,, if a cx doesnt want diplexers / miltiswitches that is his call. the install then incurrs fees to be paid by the cx. i get a signed release and the extra coax is 30 cents per foot and i charge for each and every fitting,splitter and flex clip to the antenna on top of a flat 25.00 fee for my extra time there. and i notify voom and installs of the changes. very few change the work , a few did but were then charged for any work orders for antenna issues.

........................bob
 
riffjim4069

riffjim4069

SatelliteGuys Master
Supporting Founder
Apr 7, 2004
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SatelliteGuystonfieldville, U.S.A.
Iceman said:
I doesn't look like it's going to matter cause nobody showed up and nobody called to tell me. This is the second time this week and final time I try to get Voom service. Hell, does anyone at that company know what's going on???

Guess I will just have tuck my tail and go back to Dish Network.
This morning I was tempted to ask if you had been in the contact with the installer since a fair number are no shows or chronically late. If you're into HD and you live in a good OTA reception area, I wouldn't give up on VOOM just yet. If I were you I would contact VOOM's Wilt Hildenbrand wilth@optonline.net - he is the VP of Engineering and will set the wheels in motion for your system to be professionally installed.
 
Claude Greiner

Claude Greiner

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Sep 8, 2003
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I feel running 2 cables for the Voom and the OTA antenna is important. However the dioplexer is part of the standard installation, and if you want 2 cables then its additional to install it.
 
I

Iceman

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SatelliteGuys Family
Dec 18, 2003
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Georgia
reply

riffjim4069 said:
This morning I was tempted to ask if you had been in the contact with the installer since a fair number are no shows or chronically late. If you're into HD and you live in a good OTA reception area, I wouldn't give up on VOOM just yet. If I were you I would contact VOOM's Wilt Hildenbrand wilth@optonline.net - he is the VP of Engineering and will set the wheels in motion for your system to be professionally installed.
Did that already. Read my other post.
 
riffjim4069

riffjim4069

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robert luzzi said:
i do a limited # of VOOM installs and was told to use the eq that was sent to me by voom,, if a cx doesnt want diplexers / miltiswitches that is his call. the install then incurrs fees to be paid by the cx. i get a signed release and the extra coax is 30 cents per foot and i charge for each and every fitting,splitter and flex clip to the antenna on top of a flat 25.00 fee for my extra time there. and i notify voom and installs of the changes. very few change the work , a few did but were then charged for any work orders for antenna issues.

........................bob
I ran coax cable to my receivers, additional coax for OTA, and installed all required fittings. I did this because I wanted the job done right; based on my experiences, I don't trust the installers to touch my OTA and collectively their VOOM skills aren't that much better.

Do you compensate your prewired customers? I certainly understand your desire to earn a living and you should certainly charge for additional services, however some of your charges seem petty and shouldn't be a consideration when going that extra mile to provide excellent service. If you were my installer, I would insist that you reimburse me for each foot of coax, every fitting, splitter and flex-clip on top of a flat fee of $125. :yes
 
R

robert luzzi

SatelliteGuys Guru
Nov 5, 2004
144
0
western pa.
pre wire

something is not understood here

the installer is at your home to install a parabolic dish to recieve microwave signals to let you recieve voom . they provide the dish and the diplexers and the antenna that they want installed, and that is how we get paid. YOU WANT EXTRA, YOU PAY, period

i get paid for installing for voom and directv and my contract is explicit, install by this method. again, want extra...............pay and sign release :shocked
 
K

KyInstaller

SatelliteGuys Family
Nov 30, 2004
39
0
Ky
Why installers work?

"Do you compensate your prewired customers? I certainly understand your desire to earn a living and you should certainly charge for additional services, however some of your charges seem petty and shouldn't be a consideration when going that extra mile to provide excellent service. If you were my installer, I would insist that you reimburse me for each foot of coax, every fitting, splitter and flex-clip on top of a flat fee of $125."

You are the kind of customer I love to say to "I DON'T THINK I CAN GET THIS JOB DONE TODAY, LET ME SEE IF I CAN GET SOMEONE ELSE OUT HERE IN A COUPLE OF WEEKS" Then blow the job off as a line of sight or something else.
Wonder what kind of labor You do for a living? Do You think We get the supplies for installations for free? WRONG, if You think the charges are petty, then consider if We do 15 or 20 installs a week, then multiply the parts used by that many. Not so petty then is it? :mad:
 
R

robert luzzi

SatelliteGuys Guru
Nov 5, 2004
144
0
western pa.
ky,

i would NEVER blow off an install, but what the guy was asking was if he ran all his own coax and all that for the ota that the tech should reimburse him for his time,, NOT,, what if he put the ota up and it was 100 feet from the dish location???also who then is responsible to warranty the ota antenna , me ? him? as far as voom is concerned the install is not complete because it wasnt the winegard antenna they wanted and shipped and paid to have installed. i walk on to an install and take control, the dish is going here or there im routing the coax this way or that way, any deviation from standard costs, and cash is king!! ive walked into homes where the subscriber has fish tapes hanging out of wall chases and know what , its FREE, hey he wanted it that way and he did the work. but a subscriber isnt going to tell me that you are doing to do it my way not the companys way and it WILL BE FREE, SEE YA!!!!
 
riffjim4069

riffjim4069

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Apr 7, 2004
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SatelliteGuystonfieldville, U.S.A.
KyInstaller said:
"Do you compensate your prewired customers? I certainly understand your desire to earn a living and you should certainly charge for additional services, however some of your charges seem petty and shouldn't be a consideration when going that extra mile to provide excellent service. If you were my installer, I would insist that you reimburse me for each foot of coax, every fitting, splitter and flex-clip on top of a flat fee of $125."

You are the kind of customer I love to say to "I DON'T THINK I CAN GET THIS JOB DONE TODAY, LET ME SEE IF I CAN GET SOMEONE ELSE OUT HERE IN A COUPLE OF WEEKS" Then blow the job off as a line of sight or something else.
Wonder what kind of labor You do for a living? Do You think We get the supplies for installations for free? WRONG, if You think the charges are petty, then consider if We do 15 or 20 installs a week, then multiply the parts used by that many. Not so petty then is it? :mad:
First, you know nothing about me; secondly, like the other gentleman...you need to actually read the postings and place them into their proper context; and finally, I spend a great deal of my time helping friends, coworkers and acquaintances correct botched installations.

I DON'T THINK I CAN GET THIS JOB DONE TODAY, LET ME SEE IF I CAN GET SOMEONE ELSE OUT HERE IN A COUPLE OF WEEKS" Then blow the job off as a line of sight or something else.
Wow! I'll bet your family is really proud of you, huh? Well, your words speak volumes and they work to form an insight into your character. I hope you're just saying this and that you really don't do this to your customers. If so, then perhaps you've botched or, in your words, blew-off more than one VOOM installs just so you can shriek in delight as you read about their installation woes in the VOOM Forum? Again, these are your words and I am merely pointing out the obvious. Once again, I hope you weren't being serious because I can see a pattern of how such people would surreptitiously plot against customers who voice specific rules and guidelines regarding outsider working in their homes. After all, it is their home and not yours; you are merely a guest...aren't you? Just because it is a free install that certainly doesn't mean they should expect unprofessional conduct or an unsightly, unusable, unsatisfactory service. Nor should they have to pay any frivelous charges.

It's easy make generalizations about people isn't it?

Since you asked...I design, implement and maintain network and information security systems for multi-million dollar networks. My last network was 93,000 seats and I am getting ready to turn-the-key on a newly built classified network in the near future. I do quite well thank-you.

As I stated before, I have no problem with you and other satellite installers earning a living - you are to be paid for your work and that is to be expected. But when certain installers scheme to charge for every nut and bolt it gets to be rather cheese-dickie...especially when D*, E* and V* often hire the worst-of-the-worst to do their free installations...and the proof is in the pudding: just look at many people are upset with shoddy workmanship, just look at how many people are upset with installers who do not call them to cancel or tell them they are running late, just look at how many people have very unfavorable opinions of installers. If VOOM or Installs Inc. doesn't pay enough money to meet your demands, then don't accept their work orders; same things goes for D* and E*. There's nothing worse than a customer having to listen to an installer whine and complain about the crappy pay they're receiving from VOOM installs. It's at that point I will show him or her the door because I can already tell the job is going to be half-assed and/or they're trying to scam additional monies.

To be honest, my first preference is to do business directly with a reputable dealer who sells, installs and services his or her own systems. They are indeed expensive, but many of them are worth every penny. The reason I, personally, ran my own cables is because I will do a better job than 99% of VOOM installers (I do have a personal interest in my property) and I don't wish to leave anything to chance. I make it an simply in-and-out job for the installer since I know he is not going to be eating Steak & Lobster on what Installs Inc. is paying him.

So, I was pointing out to the previous gentleman that, while he was certainly entitled to earn a living and charge for additional work, he shouldn't get so wrapped around charging for every nut and bolt - just the way he worded that sentence sent chills down my spine. Perhaps I over-reacted? So be it. I just needed to state that he should be more concerned about providing quality service than charging customers for nickel and dime items because it's not specifically covered on the contract. These costs should be built into the contract with Installs Inc. If they're too tight money then perhaps it's time to severe the business relationship. Anyway, here's an example of charging for petty services:

I have a 4 receiver installation and I run coax to three of the receiver locations. Since I live in a deep-fringe area and pull-in a (-13db) with my OTA antenna, it is imperative that I use a high-gain, low-noise amplifier in order to lock a reliable signal - a diplexer would surely kill any hope of OTA reception. So I go ahead and purchase a distribution center and have a separate coax ran to each receiver just for OTA.

Because of work commitments and other items, I only have time to run coax to 3 receiver locations and assume the installer will run 2 coax lines to the 4th receiver location. Anyway, the installer shows up (late mind you) for the install and insists that he has to charge me for running a 2nd coax line at 30 cents per foot, plus a charge for every fitting, coupler, etc. since his work order only said to run one (1) 125ft. coax per receiver. Let's see...the dish is in place, we're using my OTA, I've run cables to 3 of the 4 receivers and have even run two coax cable to the LNB and cleared an area in the wiring closer where I would like the multi-switch to be placed....and the installer is going to charge me for the 2nd coax? Based on what the other gentleman said, this is the exact picture he has painted in my mind. Do you seriously not see anything wrong with this picture?

Although I have run more than three-quarters of the coax and performed more than half of the installation, the installer is going to charge me...so isn't it fair that I, in-turn, charge him for my time and materials?
 
R

robert luzzi

SatelliteGuys Guru
Nov 5, 2004
144
0
western pa.
i do not understand your post

you ran your own coax, fine! who is guaranteeing those runs ? voom? the installer ? NOT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

the installer is to run UP TO 125 feet per reciever he DOES NOT have to guarantee you 525 feet for your install, and if you ran your own coax im sure you wall fished which would costed you plenty. if te installer would have used diplexers and would have used 525 feet with diplexers, who is paying for the other 525 feet?????????
you werent asked to run coax, and because the installer showed up and it was already in place, you figured he OWED you something ,,, NOT!!!!!!!!

he was there to install a dish, a winegard ota and the diplexers that voom said to install and that is how he was being paid,

merry christmas
 
riffjim4069

riffjim4069

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Supporting Founder
Apr 7, 2004
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SatelliteGuystonfieldville, U.S.A.
robert luzzi said:
i do not understand your post

you ran your own coax, fine! who is guaranteeing those runs ? voom? the installer ? NOT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Personally speaking, VOOM should allow self-installs and provide a free month of VA VA VOOM for those customers wishing to do so...but that's another topic of discussion.
the installer is to run UP TO 125 feet per reciever he DOES NOT have to guarantee you 525 feet for your install, and if you ran your own coax im sure you wall fished which would costed you plenty. if te installer would have used diplexers and would have used 525 feet with diplexers, who is paying for the other 525 feet?????????
you werent asked to run coax, and because the installer showed up and it was already in place, you figured he OWED you something ,,, NOT!!!!!!!!

he was there to install a dish, a winegard ota and the diplexers that voom said to install and that is how he was being paid,

merry christmas
:confused: :confused: :confused:

Let me make this perfectly clear. The installer should certainly charge for additional service (i.e., wall-fishing) and I do not expect the installer to compensate me for any work I have done prior to installation. However, according your 'Letter of the Law...Installs Inc. says' policy and based on the previous example, should a customer complete a great deal of the install using his or her time and materials, you would still charge the customer because he wanted a 2nd coax ran to the 4th receiver because they didn't wish to use a diplexer. From what you have stated, you would be obligated to charge the customer .30 per foot of coax, plus a fee for each and every fitting; you would also charge for all fittings placed on the OTA coax for the other three receivers. Don't you see something wrong with this picture?

It's in the above light that I flippantly mentioned charging the installer for my time and materials. The statement is just as ridiculous as your policy of charging the customer in the above example. Also, since we're on the topic of diplexers, "a customer should not be charged if they do not wish to use them." This is strictly a customer's choice and it is not subject to installer interpretation. http://www.satelliteguys.us/showthread.php?t=2052#Q4-8

In my case, using diplexers would render the OTA antenna useless. Using my 4 receiver scenario as an example (and assuming I did not prewire)...since I requested that diplexers not be used, you would charge me:

.30 per foot of coax for OTA X 300ft. (75ft average cable length x 4) = $90
6 fittings @ $5 per = $30
We're already up to $120 and counting...

My other alternative is to have the installer us his or her diplexers, place multiple service calls into VOOM to have the OTA problems squared-away, and finally cancel service out of frustration. I don't understand this logic. :confused:

Again, why should I have to pay for something that is already covered under this contract? Based on your first posting in this thread, I assert that you are charging VOOM customers for services already covered under contract:
http://www.satelliteguys.us/showthread.php?t=2052#Q4-8
http://www.satelliteguys.us/showpost.php?p=54363&postcount=252
http://www.satelliteguys.us/showpost.php?p=54857&postcount=328

i do a limited # of VOOM installs and was told to use the eq that was sent to me by voom,, if a cx doesnt want diplexers / miltiswitches that is his call. the install then incurrs fees to be paid by the cx. i get a signed release and the extra coax is 30 cents per foot and i charge for each and every fitting,splitter and flex clip to the antenna on top of a flat 25.00 fee for my extra time there. and i notify voom and installs of the changes. very few change the work , a few did but were then charged for any work orders for antenna issues.
Your are wrong Bob...very, very wrong. You are justified in charging for additional services, but charging the customer to run OTA coax lines is not one of them.
 

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