Getting Started with FTA

[Trip]

Well, a bit of bad news. It seems my foray into FTA satellite is over in the short term. I got home from school today (Rush concert tomorrow) and even though I used it this morning before I left, my Coolsat 6000 Premium now no longer powers up. I opened it up and tested the voltages out of the supply, and other than the 3.3V providing 2.5V, all the others were correct. There was no obvious failure on the other board, so I'm assuming it's a failure in one of the ICs.

Does anyone have a magic remedy, or am I going to have to acquire another box?

(Good news for me is that I've borrowed the Amateur Radio Club's OpenBox S9 for the weekend, so at least I can watch Al Jazeera over the weekend. My goal had been a side-by-side test of the two receivers, but that seems moot now.)

If I have to buy another box, are there any recommendations?

Thanks, all.

- Trip

 

[Trip]

Just an update, I don't know if anyone is reading this, but I handed my box off to a friend who offered to look at it for me. He discovered that flexing the main board inside made it come back to life, leading him to believe it's a bad solder joint.

I'm not sure what to do about it, but he said it was cooperating with him after flexing the board that one time, so hopefully it will not be too flaky. In either event, once I graduate next month and get into a job, I'll be looking for a new receiver, be that a USB receiver or a new box.

- Trip

 

[AcWxRadar]

Well, a bit of bad news. It seems my foray into FTA satellite is over in the short term. I got home from school today (Rush concert tomorrow) and even though I used it this morning before I left, my Coolsat 6000 Premium now no longer powers up. I opened it up and tested the voltages out of the supply, and other than the 3.3V providing 2.5V, all the others were correct. There was no obvious failure on the other board, so I'm assuming it's a failure in one of the ICs.

Does anyone have a magic remedy, or am I going to have to acquire another box?

(Good news for me is that I've borrowed the Amateur Radio Club's OpenBox S9 for the weekend, so at least I can watch Al Jazeera over the weekend. My goal had been a side-by-side test of the two receivers, but that seems moot now.)

If I have to buy another box, are there any recommendations?

Thanks, all.

- Trip

Just an update, I don't know if anyone is reading this, but I handed my box off to a friend who offered to look at it for me. He discovered that flexing the main board inside made it come back to life, leading him to believe it's a bad solder joint.

I'm not sure what to do about it, but he said it was cooperating with him after flexing the board that one time, so hopefully it will not be too flaky. In either event, once I graduate next month and get into a job, I'll be looking for a new receiver, be that a USB receiver or a new box.

- Trip

Hey Trip,

Sorry to hear this about the 6K. That is not a typical problem, they are usually quite robust and durable units. It could be a cold solder joint, but it could also be a cracked or split circuit trace on the PC board. A poor or cold solder connection is easily identified most times (the solder will appear greyish in color as opposed to silvery) but a cracked circuit trace is very hard to locate (unless the board itself has been broken in half - then it is obvious of course).

You could go over the board with a high power microscope or even a very good magnifying lens to inspect the solder connections and resolder any that appear poor or questionable.

Then again, it may have just been a connector with a bad electrical contact. Unplugging and reseating all the connectors a couple of times might be all that you need.

If you decide to purchase a new STB, I would like you to investigate these models:

AZBox Premium Plus
OpenBox S9
Fortec Star Dynamic (or related model) - for SD only.

From others testimonials, and what I have witnessed personally, the OpenBox S9 sounds pretty good for the price and available options.

I have the AZBox and the Fortec Star (and the Coolsat 5K) and my brother has the Openbox. We have been comparing them all. Read up on the specs and the prices and make your decision. I don't think that you will go wrong.

RADAR

 

[empiretc]

they are cheap these days. scored a few Visionsats off fleabay for ~$8 /each.

 

[Trip]

Hey Trip,

Sorry to hear this about the 6K. That is not a typical problem, they are usually quite robust and durable units. It could be a cold solder joint, but it could also be a cracked or split circuit trace on the PC board. A poor or cold solder connection is easily identified most times (the solder will appear greyish in color as opposed to silvery) but a cracked circuit trace is very hard to locate (unless the board itself has been broken in half - then it is obvious of course).

You could go over the board with a high power microscope or even a very good magnifying lens to inspect the solder connections and resolder any that appear poor or questionable.

Then again, it may have just been a connector with a bad electrical contact. Unplugging and reseating all the connectors a couple of times might be all that you need.

Well, when he gave it back to me today, we plugged it in and it again failed to power up. I brought it back here and opened it up, pushed on the board a bit, and it came to life. I had to reaim my dish as I think one of my roommates bumped it out on the deck, but all is back to normal for the time being.

I'm just going to deal with it and let it hold me over until I gain employment, after graduation, at which point I'll do some replacing.

If you decide to purchase a new STB, I would like you to investigate these models:

AZBox Premium Plus
OpenBox S9
Fortec Star Dynamic (or related model) - for SD only.

From others testimonials, and what I have witnessed personally, the OpenBox S9 sounds pretty good for the price and available options.

I have the AZBox and the Fortec Star (and the Coolsat 5K) and my brother has the Openbox. We have been comparing them all. Read up on the specs and the prices and make your decision. I don't think that you will go wrong.

RADAR

The Amateur Radio Club has an OpenBox S9 which is actually what I was using over the weekend to watch satellite TV while I was home. Lucky I decided to bring it home with me that weekend. I managed to catch "Good Night and Good Luck," one of my favorite films, on KTV2. I do like that receiver, though it was very green until the latest firmware update. I suspect I'll wind up with one, as the AZBox looks to be significantly more expensive.

HD is less important to me than AC3 and S2. I want to be able to watch PBS off the satellite, and I know that has AC3 audio and some of the feeds (OETA?) are in S2. (In an ideal world, MHz Worldview would still be available via FTA, but the world is sadly not ideal.)

By the way, do you or anyone else reading have any opinions on motors for dishes smaller than 1m? I'm thinking about one for my setup at home, plus the Amateur Radio Club VP wants to put one on the budget for next semester.

- Trip

 

[phlatwound]

HD is less important to me than AC3 and S2. I want to be able to watch PBS off the satellite, and I know that has AC3 audio and some of the feeds (OETA?) are in S2. (In an ideal world, MHz Worldview would still be available via FTA, but the world is sadly not ideal.)

By the way, do you or anyone else reading have any opinions on motors for dishes smaller than 1m? I'm thinking about one for my setup at home, plus the Amateur Radio Club VP wants to put one on the budget for next semester.

- Trip

From the description of your wants/needs the Openbox is exactly what you should get. HD, S2 and AC3 all-in-one. The only thing it doesn't do is 4:2:2.

As far as motors go I have a DG-380, STAB 90 and an old SG 2100. I haven't had issues with any of them but I would recommend going with the 380 or the SG9120 from Galaxy Marketing.

Something to verify is the diameter of the arm on the motor being compatible with the mounting bracket on your dish.

 

[Trip]

Well, looks like more bad news. As I suspected would happen, when the leaves came out, reception of G19 at home went right off the cliff. I tried moving the dish around, but couldn't get past the leaves with the length of coax that I have. I'll have to buy a longer coax and move it to a location clear of the tree.

I'll make sure to post an update once I do. I may also order a motor at the same time I order the coax, which would be nice to have.

- Trip

 

[beavs2112]

(Rush concert tomorrow) If I have to buy another box, are there any recommendations?

Rush fan eh? Excellent. Me too

As for rcvr recommendations I'd go with the Azbox Premium Plus. I had a Pansat 9200HD that locked up frequently and required major cooling modifications to get the cpu to run reliably. Once I saw the sports feeds and network programs in 4:2:2 on my AZ that I didn't get on my S-2 capable Pansat I was sold on the extra expense. Also if you're like most of us here you'll start out with a small ku band dish and motor then realize you'd like to get the channels on c-band. It certainly can be an addictive hobby.

 

[i4tas]

Well, looks like more bad news. As I suspected would happen, when the leaves came out, reception of G19 at home went right off the cliff. I tried moving the dish around, but couldn't get past the leaves with the length of coax that I have. I'll have to buy a longer coax and move it to a location clear of the tree.

I'll make sure to post an update once I do. I may also order a motor at the same time I order the coax, which would be nice to have.

- Trip

Hope the longer coax works... Enjoying your thread and glad you got into FTA finally!

 

[Trip]

Rush fan eh? Excellent. Me too

Indeed. Witch Hunt is my favorite song. Ever. Of all time.

As for rcvr recommendations I'd go with the Azbox Premium Plus. I had a Pansat 9200HD that locked up frequently and required major cooling modifications to get the cpu to run reliably. Once I saw the sports feeds and network programs in 4:2:2 on my AZ that I didn't get on my S-2 capable Pansat I was sold on the extra expense.

Well, I'm not a sports fan. I think I'd like the network feeds, but I'm not sure they're worth the added expense. If I didn't have a list of other things I need as well, the expense wouldn't bother me quite so much. I was hoping my current box would last me until I was employed and had those other things out of the way. I've decided to keep the current box on life support for as long as it will last, but if it completely dies too soon... the price difference may make the choice for me.

I'll definitely think on it.

Also if you're like most of us here you'll start out with a small ku band dish and motor then realize you'd like to get the channels on c-band. It certainly can be an addictive hobby.

Oh, I already know I want one, I just have nowhere to put one right now!

Hope the longer coax works... Enjoying your thread and glad you got into FTA finally!

Thanks! I'm glad I got into it, too. I'll be more glad when I have a motor and a receiver with AC3 so I can get the PBS stuff that I want, in addition to G19.

- Trip

 

[AcWxRadar]

Tripinva,

Regarding motors for the smaller Ku-band dishes (or mini-buds) I like the PowerTech DG-280 and DG-380 motors.

RADAR

 

[Trip]

Hello again, all:

First of all, thanks AcWxRadar. I'm probably going to be looking to buy a motor very soon. I graduated yesterday, and with that came gift money. In fact, my parents are buying me the computer I want/need, thus freeing up the other money for the other things on my list.

So I'm trying to figure out where exactly to place my dish, which will determine how much coax I need to buy. I'm looking to be able to look at satellites from 72W to 125W, though I won't be upset if I can go further east than that. I made a chart of the elevations of selected satellites according to DishPointer:

72 W 46.5 degrees
74 46.8
79 47.0 - Closest to due South!
83 46.8
87 46.2
89 45.7
91 45.1
97 42.9
99 42.0
101 41.1
103 40.0
121 28.6
123 27.1
125 25.6

I also made a quick image using the map at DishPointer and an image editor.

http://www.rabbitears.info/screencaps/1-temp/Sat.png
(I'll be deleting this at some point.)

Indicated by the line on the map is 125W, lowest in the sky. The yellow dot is where the dish was in my pictures that I posted a few months ago, which is very near to where the coax needs to end. The red dots represent some of the nearest oak trees which are quite tall, except I think in one place I marked a shorter cedar tree by accident. (The nearest red dot due south of the green icon with the line to 125W.) It does not represent all of the oak trees in the forested areas. The green dots represent three places that look at least somewhat feasible. Each of them would likely require 200 feet of coax or more, I believe. The one behind the house I strongly suspect would need more than 200 feet. To get a frame of reference, I recall that there is about 180 feet of wire connecting the southern-most corner of the house to the corner of the barn, which you can see the shadow of and is just off-screen at the bottom.

I'm worried that the place indicated with the line might be looking into some of the trees, even though it seems like the best location as far as convenience goes.

What do you guys think?

- Trip

 

[Tron]

Satellites near true south won't be as much of an issue with line of sight, since they're higher in the sky. I would be concerned with the birds at the far ends of the arc. These are lower, and therefore the trees may interfere. Can't tell too much from the satellite photo, could you post point of view pics from the ground where your dish would be mounted?

 

[phlatwound]

It won't help you right now, but twice a year, spring and fall, the sun tracks your satellite arc. You can stand in spots where you are considering locating your dish and by using the time info on the website (which I do not have the link to) you can see the location of each visible sat in the arc, and can tell if you have clear line of sight to it.

As you have already seen, Dishpointer is a great tool, but if you don't know the height of your potential obstacles, it still leaves some guesswork.

 

[Trip]

I'll be getting home Friday and will take some pictures then. Just figured I'd try to get a jump on it with the satellite image.

I'm mostly worried about 125, which as you suggest, will be lowest in the sky. That's why I included the line for that one on the map.

I know that the more coax I use, the worse my loss will be, so I'm trying to figure out which one will be nearest while still working. I don't even know how much coax I can get away with before the reception degrades too severely.

Unfortunately, I don't know the exact heights of the trees, and I suspect that the most convenient placement will be looking through trees anyway. I'll likely need to get a protractor and stand at that point to see how high up I'm actually looking.

- Trip

 

[phlatwound]

........I know that the more coax I use, the worse my loss will be, so I'm trying to figure out which one will be nearest while still working. I don't even know how much coax I can get away with before the reception degrades too severely.....

From what I have read here on the forum there are several here that are running 200'+ with no issues (good quality RG6 coax), if you have to go much further than that I have seen RG11 recommended. RG11 requires different connectors and tools to work it, and is considerably more expensive.

 

[Trip]

Well, I got home today and it was raining. I did step outside during a break in the rain and check out the position I thought was most convenient... I think there's more tree cover than I thought. I definitely think I can grab 97W from that position, but I'm worried about 125W and 72W due to tree cover. Even 79W, due south, looks iffy, which would make setup of a motor rather challenging. If time and weather conditions allow, I'll try to snap a few photos tomorrow.

- Trip

 

[Trip]

Okay, so I went and took a few pics. You'll find them attached.

5 is my current tree-blocked setup aimed at 97W, to give a frame of reference. 6 backs away to transition out while keeping the frame of reference, and 7 and 8 are standing at the spot in question. I suspect I'd be okay on 97W but I'm not sure how far east or west I'd be able to see. I don't think it's wide enough, regardless. I measured and I believe 100 feet of coax would get me from my bedroom out to the dish placement. On a nice day, I might break out an extension cord and see what I can see from there with the current setup.

9 and 10 are in the driveway in front of the house, near one of my other spots. 9 looks more west, 10 more south. The only problem is that I'd have to run a significantly longer coax, otherwise it looks like it could be workable. I'm not anxious to do this one though.

11 and 12 are from way behind the house. 200 feet of coax minimum. 11 is looking more south, 12 more west. Sadly, next to the right-most fig tree in 12 is a VERY nice view of the whole sky where I'm sure it would work, but I'd never be able to put it there because of how far it is, plus it would mean the addition of yet another obstacle for the riding mower.

Unfortunately, without any frame of reference, these pictures probably don't help much. I might just have to do the old guess and check method of finding a decent location.

- Trip

 

[Jim S.]

I've forgotten, do you have your motor already? If so, you could do what I did to survey locations before I chose a permanent place for my dish: fasten the wall mount (you have a wall mount, right?) to a plank (you may have to put it together upside-down / backwards), put the motor on the wall mount, and then use stones or wood pieces to shim up the plank til the mount is level. It should get you close enough to let you check out most if not all of the arc, assuming that your receiver has a decent USALS implementation. (I never used diseqc 1.2, so I can't help you there. All I know is, if the pole is plumb and if the angle scales on your dish and motor are good enough to let you find one satellite, I never had any huge problems setting up USALS on something other than the southmost satellite. If your signal drops as you get away from the one you aligned with and you KNOW you're not looking at a tree, adjust the dish elevation til you get locked on, then go back to where you started and see if you still have it there. If you've lost it, it means that something isn't level.)

 

[turbosat]

trip, JImS has a good idea there. I was going to suggest a mobile mount in a bucket or something placed in your possible locations , take a tv and receiver out in the yard, to test which satellites you can find, without the motor for now. Once you get the hang of manually locating the sats, it wouldn't take long to check which ones you can "see". From pic 11,12 I think that would be a workable location, but looks can be deceiving. Remember the dish is receving at an angle that is higher than it 'appears' to be aimed. Congratulations on graduation!!