Harmonic Encoder Improvements? (Feedback Need it)
- Thread starter SmiGump
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daveoo said:
Is this in every channel? There's a difference between the pixelation in the movement that describe the PQ problem and having pixelation do to other circuntances.
I am also overcast here in NYC but do not have the pixelation that you are describing.
To Everyone:
Your feedback has been very helpfu and there still more work to be done. When you post about a channel PQ problem be as specific as possible of what you are seeing.
daveoo said:
After coming home from work today, I have noticed extremely bad washing during movement on HD channels. I was watching Equator and I've never seen the splotching do bad during movement.
The have certainly been doing some tweaking today but in the wrong direction.
I'm not sure if it will ever be the same. Voom, what's the deal????
All ya got to do is watch soccer on Worldsport for a while to understand how bad the motion/softening problem is. Look at the grass during motion. I've had Voom for 3 weeks and it certainly didn't look that way when I first started watching it.
Hi;
When my wife finishes her meal I will go down and check a few more channels. The ones I can confirm are Rave, Ultra and Monsters about 50 min ago.
On another note:
I did a comparison btn VOOM and Dish this Wed nite watching ESPN HD basketball. NEC 110 LC on 84 inch wide Stewart screen with perfect light control. I could watch one provider then switch and see a repeat of 3 seconds of the prior. Extron switcher. The VOOM component output went into a Lumagen HDP and then into the Extron with RGB BNCs. The Dish went straight RGB BNCs into the Extron. One set of BNCs from Extron to the PJ. Sure, the VOOM signal had to pass thru an extra stage (unprocessed 1080i thru the Lumagen), but the differences were minimal. I would only comment on resolution/artifact issues since the Lumi does improve the VOOM signal with color, contrast, brightness etc adjustments. The Lumi has the sharpness turned way down. The brightness is not cranked up on the Lumi and is close in adjustment to the input from a Denon DVD player. That brightness set to see detail in the blacks in Fifth Element. Because of the Lumi, the VOOM picture was nicer.
However, the Dish signal wins buy a hair on resolution/artifact considerations. Dish had a small amount more fine detail available and in place VOOM had a bit more noise. Noise would be small speckles, blurring and inability to resolve the detail. I particularily concentrated on the center floor team graphics from the above camera view.
This took me about 10 minutes to conclude and if I could not do a three second A/B I could not have drawn any conclusions. I was not moved by the differences and would not make a decision regarding VOOM vs Dish based on what I discovered. If I had VOOM in one room on a display and Dish in another room on the equal display I would be stumped to see a difference in resolution.
Granted, this was a small and limited comparison and the Lumi and its settings may have disadvantaged the VOOM. Dish was as pure as I can run a signal. The Lumi is a great unit tho.
The above comparison turned up no breakup or pixels on either providers signal.
Snapshot in time.
daveoo
When my wife finishes her meal I will go down and check a few more channels. The ones I can confirm are Rave, Ultra and Monsters about 50 min ago.
On another note:
I did a comparison btn VOOM and Dish this Wed nite watching ESPN HD basketball. NEC 110 LC on 84 inch wide Stewart screen with perfect light control. I could watch one provider then switch and see a repeat of 3 seconds of the prior. Extron switcher. The VOOM component output went into a Lumagen HDP and then into the Extron with RGB BNCs. The Dish went straight RGB BNCs into the Extron. One set of BNCs from Extron to the PJ. Sure, the VOOM signal had to pass thru an extra stage (unprocessed 1080i thru the Lumagen), but the differences were minimal. I would only comment on resolution/artifact issues since the Lumi does improve the VOOM signal with color, contrast, brightness etc adjustments. The Lumi has the sharpness turned way down. The brightness is not cranked up on the Lumi and is close in adjustment to the input from a Denon DVD player. That brightness set to see detail in the blacks in Fifth Element. Because of the Lumi, the VOOM picture was nicer.
However, the Dish signal wins buy a hair on resolution/artifact considerations. Dish had a small amount more fine detail available and in place VOOM had a bit more noise. Noise would be small speckles, blurring and inability to resolve the detail. I particularily concentrated on the center floor team graphics from the above camera view.
This took me about 10 minutes to conclude and if I could not do a three second A/B I could not have drawn any conclusions. I was not moved by the differences and would not make a decision regarding VOOM vs Dish based on what I discovered. If I had VOOM in one room on a display and Dish in another room on the equal display I would be stumped to see a difference in resolution.
Granted, this was a small and limited comparison and the Lumi and its settings may have disadvantaged the VOOM. Dish was as pure as I can run a signal. The Lumi is a great unit tho.
The above comparison turned up no breakup or pixels on either providers signal.
Snapshot in time.
daveoo
It's time for me to echo what I've seen others say here.
When I got Voom back in December, the HD was awesome and the quality of the SD really impressed me. So much better than E* or cable. The SD movie channels used to be almost like watching a DVD (albiet in 4:3 instead of 16x9)
Since the new encoders, the SD has been awful on most SD channels, to the point that I can't stand to watch it. It is once again painful to watch some of my favorite programs on the SciFi channel. The PQ is especially bad the darker the picture gets, or the more motion the picture gets.
It also hasn't been quite as good on the HD. Some channels look very good, others not so hot, to the point of being worse than the previous PQ of the SD movie channels that I mentioned above, but I haven't really kept track.
I really hope Voom manages to get the PQ worked out. Whatever the competition, their goal/niche should be to have the best PQ available.
When I got Voom back in December, the HD was awesome and the quality of the SD really impressed me. So much better than E* or cable. The SD movie channels used to be almost like watching a DVD (albiet in 4:3 instead of 16x9)
Since the new encoders, the SD has been awful on most SD channels, to the point that I can't stand to watch it. It is once again painful to watch some of my favorite programs on the SciFi channel. The PQ is especially bad the darker the picture gets, or the more motion the picture gets.
It also hasn't been quite as good on the HD. Some channels look very good, others not so hot, to the point of being worse than the previous PQ of the SD movie channels that I mentioned above, but I haven't really kept track.
I really hope Voom manages to get the PQ worked out. Whatever the competition, their goal/niche should be to have the best PQ available.
Since my last post I started watching VOOM HDs and saw some breakup/pixels (B/P) on close motion WorldSport, motion Equator and motion on Rush. Then I went to the premiums and saw none of the problems. I returned 10 min ago to the VOOM HDs and could find no B/Ps for about 10 min.
The B/Ps this afternoon were frequent on Ultra and made the video frustrating to watch.
I will add I am new to VOOM by about 16 days and cannot do a long term comparison.
Is there a place in this thread with terminology of artifact and descriptions. If technicians are responding to our input what do they want to know and when? Later I will read this entire thread, but now wife wants a backrub in front of the XBR 960. Helps to sell her on this hobby.
daveoo
The B/Ps this afternoon were frequent on Ultra and made the video frustrating to watch.
I will add I am new to VOOM by about 16 days and cannot do a long term comparison.
Is there a place in this thread with terminology of artifact and descriptions. If technicians are responding to our input what do they want to know and when? Later I will read this entire thread, but now wife wants a backrub in front of the XBR 960. Helps to sell her on this hobby.
daveoo
Backrub over. Watched VOOM HDs. No breakup or pixels. Rave, Ultra, Lab, Worldsport and Rush. On World Sport soccer I noticed that the distant field has some softening on motion, but I have to watch specifically for the artifact.
daveoo
daveoo
The spike channel looks bad. The picture is like looking down a highway when it is 120 degrees. Looks blurred from the heat. There is also extreme ghosting around people, especially their heads.
Watching "Die Another Day" on Next and the splotching problem is terrible. Any kind of action and it splotches pretty bad.
Voom must be right up against some bandwidth limitation or there's some more tweaking left to do.
DirecTV's SD looked a lot better than Voom's SD.
Voom must be right up against some bandwidth limitation or there's some more tweaking left to do.
DirecTV's SD looked a lot better than Voom's SD.
Well, I can tell a big difference on RAVEHD. The flashes now splotch out and the back drops splotch out when the camera moves.
Every channel I watch now has the splotches/wash out with movement issue.
I hope this isn't just a characteristic of these new encoders cause if it is, bring back the old ones!
Every channel I watch now has the splotches/wash out with movement issue.
I hope this isn't just a characteristic of these new encoders cause if it is, bring back the old ones!
Static images look excellent, but detail is lacking in background images and picture breaks up during motion frames. IMO, this has more to do with a bandwidth constraint due to their adding new channels than it does with the Harmonic encoders. I can live with it for for a short-term, but VOOM needs to get Rainbow 2 up and running very soon. Off-Topic: do any FTA folks see a broadcast signal coming from the Rainbow 2 transponders yet? Likewise, has anyone pointed their VOOM dish at Rainbow 2 yet?softwiz said:
I'll try pointing mine over if some knows the elevation,the compass reading is 72 from what i read,just don't know the elevation.They do say that both birds would be picked up with the 35"x20" dish,I assume they split the difference 67/72
softwiz said:
I agree! This "tweaking" has been going on for 2 weeks now. PQ is still bad. It's getting old. And now I've got problems with my STB with the guide and channels not in sync. If this continues much longer I think we should be asking Voom for pro rated bills.
ram1220 said:
Here's something curious. The PQ on ESPNHD is incredible and I see NO splotching/washing out during heavy movement. I'm wondering if they are allocating more bandwidth for ESPNHD because of the college tournament?
The Voom and SD channels are all suffering from the splotching/washing out issue though.
I just did another Dish/VOOM comparison on ESPN HD at 14:00. Very close and the same as three days ago.
Correction: The Lumi Sharpness is fixed on the VOOM 1080i input.
WOW did I see some color blocking on Rave and Ultra last midnight. Gone in AM. This was on my third rcvr that finally was installed last nite at 23:00. Maybe all software was not installed at the time.
daveoo
Correction: The Lumi Sharpness is fixed on the VOOM 1080i input.
WOW did I see some color blocking on Rave and Ultra last midnight. Gone in AM. This was on my third rcvr that finally was installed last nite at 23:00. Maybe all software was not installed at the time.
daveoo
