lost station

[Houston]

I apologize, I was thinking at some point, that the V-III Amp was overdriving, and it wouldn't be used.
Then, the Dual setup of the V5 and a UHF Antenna (now presumed to be a 4221) both directed to 45° Azimuth. (with the SD-3700)

That not withstanding, are we not duplicating the UHF here, with the 7696 and 4221, or will they will be pointed in different directions.
The 4221 toward the CW station at 214°, and the 7696 to 45°? Will the V-III let the UHF of the 7696 through if it's on the VHF side ?

You sure that V-III shouldn't go completely, or, be replaced by a single in/out Amp with a Combiner ahead of it ?

Have a good Day !
S.W.

 

[acamus]

styxfix, It sounds bizarre that channel 11 is the actual 28-1, which is the channel we watched prior to installing the preamp? Anyway the winegard 7696p is on the way. I'll be installing it sometime next week. I'll keep all posted.

 

[acamus]

Houston, I intend to use only the 7696p with the Blonder tongue amp which has two 300 ohm inputs with 1 single coax out. The antenna mast is to fragile to hold up two antennas in heavy wind. BTW is there a solution to the icing of the antenna elements during winter rain conditions?

 

[Houston]

acamus,

Ok, I think that's a wise choice. The 7696 will do everything that the CM will anyway.
But, you should try it just by it's self first, see how that works, and add the Amp IF it's needed (it probably will be) but try the Antenna alone first.

When/IF you need the Amp, how had you thought to hook it up (the Antenna Input). Run a Twin Lead to the UHF and VHF connectors (2 300 ohm wires) ?
Or maybe just a jumper from one to the other ?

I don't know of any specific way to handle the Icing problem, let me look around.

Have a good Day !
S.W.

 

[acamus]

Houston,
You assume correctly, two 300 ohm wires from the antenna connections to the preamp, then a single coax to the power supply. Other than saving power, is there a reason you wish to use the 7696 by itself?

 

[No Static At All]

Acamus, are you aware that the 7696 is a 75 ohm antenna?

 

[Houston]

Winegard HD7696P, Specs, Install Manual, Links

NSAA,

I can not come up with a good enough Pic of the...
Winegard HD7696P
or in the..
Spec Sheet for the Winegard 7696P
to see the Transformer section clearly. In the...
Winegard Series 769 Antennas Installation Manual
on Paragraph 8, it shows the 75 Ohm Cartridge to adapt for Coax, but, it's possible that there may still be connections for 300 Ohm there.

acamus,
To finish the above statement, MOST Antennas have a Balun (matching transformer 300-75 Ohm) which one can electively remove, giving the user an option to use Twin Lead 300 Ohm, or, connecting the Balun, to adapt 75 Ohm Coaxial cable to the Antenna. Your choice to go with 300 Ohm, wold have required you to not use the Balun.
You may have already known this, but so many people read these posts, I've found it helpful, to be basic most times.

You ask, "is there a reason you wish to use the 7696 by itself?"
Yes, I can't help but think about the possible Overdriving issue !
It would be a simple "trial", to use the Balun and a Inline Connector (coupling) to bypass the Amp, and see if the 7696 wold provide adequate viewing on it's own.
It is a higher gain and more directional Antenna than the 4221, and I think you should at least give it a chance, and see what it will do by it's self.

If NSAA's implication is correct, you may not have a choice but to use a coupling like the...
Winegard FS-8100
and a short piece of Coax, to reach the Antenna, unless there is sufficient slack in your Downlead, to pull it up to the Antenna directly.
I've linked this for the Pic only, the item shown is a Bag of 6, and you would only need one of them, which you may have already, or buy locally.

Have a good Day !
S.W.

 

[acamus]

Houston,
Your point is well made. I do have several coax to coax adapters on the shelf. I can't help but think your suggestion of use without preamp first is a good recommendation. Fewer parts, less noise. Sure I'll try it first. It will be some extra work but it could prove to be worth it. I'll keep you posted.

 

[Splicer]

I have been offline for a couple of days, so forgive me if this has already been mentioned as I just skimmed over the posts I've missed.

The only issue I see using the existing V-III pre-amp with the 7696 antenna, is that the V-III was designed for 2 seperate antennas. That is the reason for the two independant inputs. The 7696 only has 1 connection point, be it 75ohm or 300ohm. So you will still need to jumper the UHF to the VHF.

 

[acamus]

Splicer,
I'm going to go with Houstons suggestion. Without the preamp first. I'll adapt with connectors later if necessary.

 

[Houston]

Splicer,

Yes, we picked up on your first post about this. It was a good point to make !
I've been retired for just about 10 years now, and I've installed several of the Winegard 796 Series, but, I just can't remember if one can optionally select 75 or 300.
I haven't even considered the use of 300 Ohm since the mid 1980's.

When one starts a Tread like this, it's hard to know just how much he knows already.
Apparently acamus has done his homework, has some parts, and realizes the value of the KISS principal to TV Antenna Installations.

acamus,

The only other thing that we haven't mentioned so far is...
Your chart is repleat with "2 Edge" stations. Usually, the only way to get those closer to LOS (Line of Sight) is to increase the height of the Antenna.
You're already at 50' or so, any chance you can increase that ?

Have a good Day !
S.W.

 

[Splicer]

Houston, the output type of the antenna really isn't the concern here with what I am talking about. If he wants to keep the 7 added channels (and really, why wouldn't he ) he needs the pre-amp, which combines a balun and a UVSJ into 1 package. Keeping the connection points to a minimum without unneccessary adapters and added connections to possibly fail during the most inopportune times. I am trying to keep acamus to the KISS principle, which is why I am saying these things in my posts.

acamus, thats fine. The only thing is, I have to wonder, why? Not that there is anything wrong with houstons suggestion, it's just that you already know that without the pre-amp and your existing antenna, you get CH28. With the pre-amp, you gained 7 more stations but lost CH28. And we know why you lost CH28 because CH28 is VHF 11. And you said how difficult and time consuming taking the mast down is. So, if you don't care about the 7 additional channels, and just want CH28, then you don't need a $90 antenna or the amp. Save yourself some money and return the new antenna (and the amp if possible) and be done with it.

But if you do want the added 7 channels, as well as CH28, then all you need to do is jumper the UHF & VHF inputs, from the antenna you already have. So far I really don't see the need for the new antenna.

 

[Houston]

Blonder-Tongue Pre-Amps Spec Sheet Link

Splicer,

All your points are well made, and I ALWAYS read your posts carefully, as I highly recommend that acamus should also !!!

One thing though...
IF acamus has a CM 4221 (which I think he has), it is not rated for VHF. Wouldn't it be a good idea to go ahead and get the 7696 ?
Having the VHF ability should include the Ch 11/28.1.

Yes, I have suggested trying not using the amp, but seriously, I do think one is going to be necessary to pull the other stations in, as do you.
I just don't think that going with that Blonder is the best way to go.
It's complicating things, has a quite high noise level, as I finally found in the...
Blonder-Tongue Pre-Amps Spec. Sheet
and after seeing that, I'd offer the...
Winegard HDP269
as a better choice, 75 Ohm in and out, a little less gain, but with much lower noise.
Your thoughts ?

Have a good Day !
S.W.

 

[Splicer]

acamus already has an antenna that appears to do everything he desires, so I just don't see the need for a massive, wind sock like the 7696 in his situation. A $30 5-element VHF antenna will put alot less stress on the mast/guy wires, even with the CM he already is using, and the stress is what seems to be of concern. I am in complete agreement that if a combo antenna is to be used, the wrong pre-amp is being used. But it is the correct unit for seperate (more accurate and stable) antennas.

Again, trying to adhere to the KISS principle, I am working with what he has vs. getting him to spend money on something not needed, so the suggestion to jumper the UHF and VHF inputs. There is the chance that may not work, but I think it is a small enough chance to risk attempting it, before unpacking and setting up an antenna. Now if his existing antenna needs to be replaced anyway, this is all moot. But I don't recall him saying the existing antenna as needing replacement.

Now for the choice in pre-amps. Yes, a single 75ohm input is the ideal method (as far as I am concerned) to be able to stick to the KISS principle. However, I myself am not to crazy with mast mounted equipment. Personally, on my antenna system, I mast mounted a UVSJ passive. But I mounted my pre-amp (the NexxTech in my signature) in the house, behind the component rack. Should there be a failure, it is very easy to get to and correct, instead of getting on the roof in the wind, rain, sleet, snow or ice, which is when things usually go wrong, always at the most in-opertune time. While there is nothing wrong with the mast mount units, beyond my paranoia (I was in the CATV business for over 27 years and I was called out on many a-night for repairs in the air that could have been on the ground, but thats another topic for another time), what you suggested Houston is a good pre-amp with a good track record.

 

[acamus]

Splicer,
I have the mast which is 30 feet of 1 1/2 rigid conduit attached to a 45 foot pine tree . At the point of contact I have a heavy hinge arrangement which allows me to lower the mast with a pulley. I however must climb up to about 4o feet to the safety latch I have installed to prevent the mast from falling if one of the guy wires breaks. At 62 my wife gets cranky when I do something a bit dangerous. Our town is at an elevation of 1100 feet approximately. And as I mentioned b-4, we had channel 28 before I installed the preamp. Of course if it wasn't for the loss of CH 28 and "Days of Our Lives" fan living here I wouldn't be doing any of this>>>>>>>

 

[Splicer]

I would LUV to see a picture of that acamus.

 

[Houston]

acamus,

Wow, I know 62 &+ !
You mentioned you had some difficulty in accessing the Antenna, I see now !
Please excuse us for referring to you in third person so much, but one thing for sure is, that Splicer and I agree on the 7696 being a rather large Antenna.
If you remember, I refereed to it when suggesting a Rotator for your system, and would have chosen a 7694/5 given, you are just asking it to range out to 30 mi.

Splicer,

Each point you've stated, again is excellent. And I think that we may consider...
That acamus is going to use the 7696, just by it's self at first, then...
At some point, he's going to connect it to the Blonder Amp, and see how that works.

Now...
I noticed some "hesitation" from you on how it (the single 7696) would be connected, assuming that the 300 Ohm can be accessed. And ask...

1) Do you think there may be a Polarity problem between the VHF and UHF, where one may have to twist the Twin Lead to attach/bridge the two ?
&
2) Do you think there may be an Impedance issue, where he may need to use a 300 ohm Resistor across the VHF, having connected the Antenna to the UHF ?

Have a good Day !
S.W.

PS: YES, I agree with Splicer, take some Picks of it for us !!!

 

[acamus]

I'm in the doghouse already and if I keep spending money on all these suggestions and don't get Days of Our Lives I'll be heading for divorce court. You guys will probably like a picture of that too.......

 

[Splicer]

Houston,

1] No

2] No

Acamus, quit spending money brother. But one question. Isn't at least one of the added 7 channels you now get, the same network (what network shows that soap, CBS?) that she could watch instead of 28, at least in the interim?

 

[Yes616]

I wonder if the OP's problem is similar to mine in the WNEP thread. At only around 30 miles outside the NYC DMA, WPIX from NYC might be interferring with the WBRE signal.

I say this even though I don't see WPIX on the TV Fool list using just the zip code 18248 supplied by the OP.

TV Fool ain't perfect. It doesn't even show that WNEP real is moving to channel 50 on Dec 5th. On the pending list it still shows as 49.