Newbie needs help....

[johann12]

I was just thinking maybe it's good or more cost effective if I just buy the best dish once. In this case the biggest, which I thought to be 1.2 m (4 ft). But now 1.2 turned out to be not the biggest as 6 ft will be much better.

Maybe I asked too much and have yet to decide so that now I'm a bit uncertain.

I guess let me back checking those in Kijiji and spend money as low as possible . Once I'm more comfortable I can then do another project or experiment with bigger dish and/or different type of LNBF.

I recommend to anyone that is starting with c-band that they use 8 foot or bigger, because for many folks the 6 footer is somewhat limited in receiving signals, depending on location and the satellites you are aiming to.
When reading threads here you will find out that a lot of folks getting rid of their 1 year old rusty 6 footers.

Did you ever go to lyngsat to see what would suit you better.....KU or C ?
KU is listed at lyngsat as a 5 digit transponder number while C band is listed as a 4 digit transponder #.

First when I got into FTA I started out with KU using a big dishnetwork dish that they left behind and an $15 linear LNBF of ebay that is still aimed at 97w. No motor. I just wanted to see if the FTA really works, but it took awhile to aim that dishnetwork dish( I would not recommend a dishnetwork dish for an beginner, get a 36 inch or bigger). A simple setup for an beginner to learn the FTA thing.
Then I switched to C-band. The dish was a free 7 1/2 foot dish. I invested $260 for the whole setup/upgrade, receiver, LNBF, Dish mover, concrete and other hardware etc etc.
1/2 year later I upgraded to a 10 footer.
Now I am pushing to get a bigger KU dish with an motor.

 

[oleleho]

I recommend to anyone that is starting with c-band that they use 8 foot or bigger, because for many folks the 6 footer is somewhat limited in receiving signals, depending on location and the satellites you are aiming to.
When reading threads here you will find out that a lot of folks getting rid of their 1 year old rusty 6 footers.

Did you ever go to lyngsat to see what would suit you better.....KU or C ?
KU is listed at lyngsat as a 5 digit transponder number while C band is listed as a 4 digit transponder #.

First when I got into FTA I started out with KU using a big dishnetwork dish that they left behind and an $15 linear LNBF of ebay that is still aimed at 97w. No motor. I just wanted to see if the FTA really works, but it took awhile to aim that dishnetwork dish( I would not recommend a dishnetwork dish for an beginner, get a 36 inch or bigger). A simple setup for an beginner to learn the FTA thing.
Then I switched to C-band. The dish was a free 7 1/2 foot dish. I invested $260 for the whole setup/upgrade, receiver, LNBF, Dish mover, concrete and other hardware etc etc.
1/2 year later I upgraded to a 10 footer.
Now I am pushing to get a bigger KU dish with an motor.

Thanks for your response. Yes, I've checked Lyngsat and found out most of good channels have been exclusively dedicated for those big satellite providers :-(.

Now I just checked again, after being informed on transponder digit, and found out that most channels in Galaxy 19 are on C-band. So my ex Starchoice dish (32") wont capture most of them, even on Ku-band, I guess (?). Should I cancel the purchase plan then?

And it seems that even with C-band we need to get bigger and bigger dish. 10 ft is humongous.

 

[oleleho]

...and found out that most channels in Galaxy 19 are on C-band...

Sorry for being inaccurate, majority are on Ku-band.

 

[northgeorgia]

The premium channels aren't available on FTA, as you noted. The C-band channels require a larger dish, which can be difficult for a lot of people. The Ku-band is a good choice, and at the moment Galaxy 19 has the most 24/7 channels on it. Look at Lyngsat again on Galaxy 19 Ku-band: some of these channels come and go, but for the most part you'll get what you see there. If you click on the station, Lyngsat puts a link to each station's website if available -- it's worth browsing. Galaxy 19 is mostly religious and foreign language programming, but I'm still very happy with what it offers for free There are other satellites with English news, network, and entertainment channels, PBS programming, and additional foreign language stations but you won't get as many channels on these satellites at a time. With an OTA antenna and FTA satellite (plus Internet-based TV such as Netflix), you'll probably have more than enough TV to watch The feeds to me really make it worthwhile...for example I'm in Georgia and as I type this, I was watching a news reporter from Canada talk about an explosion and she almost got run over by a tractor trailer -- the cameraman yanked her out of the way just in time!

One important aspect to consider is your view of the Southern sky (actually SW to East). I suggest going to http://www.dishpointer.com to make sure you don't have any buildings or trees obstructing where you plan on putting your dish. This will save you a lot of headache and heartache!

 

[johann12]

Why do we need bigger satellite dishes.
Here is a little basic on power output with TV/radio station and satellite that I read.

The old TV and radio station signal that they put out over the air(regular antenna) was from 10,000 to 50,000 watts.
With the new digital signal they had to drop down about 10,000 to 15,000 watts and many folks had problems with that already not to mention that many had to use an converter to watch tv.

Satellites have way lower power outputs and signals travel thousands of miles. That's why they have to be aimed exactly.
Paid subscription providers like direct tv ,dishnetwork and others have an power output at their satellites of about 80-130 watts.
So there dishes can be a little bit smaller than FTA dishes.
Most FTA satellites have an power output of about 50 watts. To compensate that lower power output, it is required that the FTA dishes have to be bigger to get a stronger signal to the LNB/LNBF .

I read this a few years back and this may have changed a little bit, but there is still a big difference in power output from your regular radio/tv station and satellites. And this should give you some understanding why we need bigger dishes for FTA.

 

[Blindowl1234]

I started with a six foot dish for cband long ago. I got an 8 footer a few years ago and would'nt use a six footer if you can get a bigger dish. Ku band 36" or bigger nothing smaller. Been there done that

 

[Tron]

Most broadcasters and cable headends who receive these signals have 6 to 10 foot dishes for Ku-Band, and much larger dishes for C-Band. As hobbyists, we are generally using undersized dishes compared to the pros who these channels are intended for.

 

[oleleho]

By noting that the smallest dish for better reception is 36" I think the ex StarChoice dish I'm planning to buy is not quite sufficient, isn't it? Especially knowing that the dish is elliptical and the shortest length is only 18" while the longest diameter is 32". Also I understood from previous postings that the linear polarity means vertical coverage/exposure, which will be taken by the 18" part, not the 32 one. Maybe there's a better way of explaining what I mean. But I hope you guys understand.

Please shed some light again and kindly bear with me J.

 

[FaT Air]

60e(Elliptical) is 32x20, and has an area of 2010.62 sq.in. My 30 inch offsets (75cm = 30.5 x 32.5 ) area is 3114.10 sq.in. So the performance would be about 2/3's of them. Height and width doesn't determine their performance on opposite polarities, only the area determines gain, for both polarities.

 

[Anole]

... and the width of a dish determines it's beamwidth, or adjacent-satellite rejection.
For more info on ellipticalls, see comments in the current "30 w" thread.

 

[oleleho]

Guys, here I am. Just installed 36", put the satellite finder between the LNBF and the receiver, as suggested, and started blind scan. Although the finder measured max dB and produced high pitch sound but I got 0 Q and no channels were captured. What did I miss?

Also I wonder, with the pole/mast stands at 90 degrees and informed elevation at 38.1 degrees the dish looks almost perpendicular to the ground. I thought I need to tilt the dish more to the sky. The informed LNB skew is 11.8 degrees.

Also my receiver (Viewsat VS pro) didn't provide the following satellites provided by dishpointer.com:
1. 91W GALAXY 17 (G-17) | NIMIQ 1 | NIMIQ 2
2. 119W DIRECTV 7S | ECHOSTAR 14 | ECHOSTAR 7
3. 110W DIRECTV 5 (TEMPO 1) | ECHOSTAR 10 | ECHOSTAR 11
4. 82W NIMIQ 4
5. 97W GALAXY 19 (G-19)

Also how to get exact elevation and LNBF skew in these magnitudes: 30.9/27.9, 25.9/33.6, 39.4/2.7, 36.4/17.5, 38.1/11.8, while the dish angle precision is in the order of 2 degrees.

Thanks for sharing.

 

[FaT Air]

Should be a scale on the dish mount that reads elevation. Most are not "Right On" but within a couple of degrees. The pole the dish is attached to has to be perfectly vertical or these can be way off.
Skew- Usually there's a mark on the top of the LNBF. Straight up is = 12 o;clock = "0" skew. Each 'hour' = 30° = 1 o'clock. 1:30 = 45°. 30 minutes would be 15°. Set skew to 'close', find the satellite, peak skew and dish.
Dish face and elevation - With a dish with 24° offset, looking at elevation 38, the dish face would be tilted back(from vertical) 38 - 24 = 14°.
With a straight edge across the dish face, vertical, a angle finder would read 90 - 14 = 76°.
You should be able to either add a satellite, or edit the info on an existing one. The satellite names change, more often than not, but the satellites positions are stationary. G19 @ 97W replaced G25. Sometimes, the satellite name has changed because of a sale.
http://www.satelliteguys.us/threads/71402-What-satellite-is-where
NOTE: another update: 101W is now satellite SES-1

 

[johann12]

Guys, here I am. Just installed 36", put the satellite finder between the LNBF and the receiver, as suggested, and started blind scan. Although the finder measured max dB and produced high pitch sound but I got 0 Q and no channels were captured. What did I miss?

Also I wonder, with the pole/mast stands at 90 degrees and informed elevation at 38.1 degrees the dish looks almost perpendicular to the ground. I thought I need to tilt the dish more to the sky. The informed LNB skew is 11.8 degrees.

Also my receiver (Viewsat VS pro) didn't provide the following satellites provided by dishpointer.com:
1. 91W GALAXY 17 (G-17) | NIMIQ 1 | NIMIQ 2
2. 119W DIRECTV 7S | ECHOSTAR 14 | ECHOSTAR 7
3. 110W DIRECTV 5 (TEMPO 1) | ECHOSTAR 10 | ECHOSTAR 11
4. 82W NIMIQ 4
5. 97W GALAXY 19 (G-19)

Also how to get exact elevation and LNBF skew in these magnitudes: 30.9/27.9, 25.9/33.6, 39.4/2.7, 36.4/17.5, 38.1/11.8, while the dish angle precision is in the order of 2 degrees.

Thanks for sharing.

Let see if we can get you to receive 97w galaxy 19 for example. I guess you have a dish without motor, linear LNBF, signal meter and coax hooked up straight to your receiver.
Go to menu, satellite, satellite list and click ok, scroll to gallaxy 19 KU..97w and put a checkmark by clicking ok.
Then hit exit 1 time.
Go to antenna setup, press ok on remote,
Satellite, should show galaxy 19 ku, if not scroll left or right until it is showing.
Lnb frequency, set to 10750 if you have an regular linear LNBF
Diseq 1.0 and 1.1 off
22K off
motor off
Hit Exit.

Go to single scan.
Satellite, should show galaxy 19 KU
FTA only....set to NO
Scan channel.....TV+ radio (if you want radio also). If you do not want radio set it to TV
Go down to scan mode, click left or right until blind scan or accurate scan shows.
Go down to scan and click ok.

After scan is complete confirm with yes. Exit and exit until you exit menu, this will be your regular TV mode.
Flip your channels.
If you hit the info key 3 times on your remote all the info of this channel will be displayed.

Take the info of a channel and go to lyngsat to see if this is the satellite you wanted.

You can delete the whole channel list by going to menu, tv , delete all.

Satellite 110,119 has no interest for us to receive FTA, the only thing you will get are scrambled channels.

97w is a good satellite to aim as a beginner. It has strong transponders like the Thai channels are using and it has weaker ones. And you should get about 200 channels.
A blindscan will scan the satellite if you are aimed at a satellite, even though if you aimed at the wrong satellite. But since you have an KU dish, make sure that you select a KU satellite from your satellite list.

What LNBF are you using for your 36'' dish ?

 

[johann12]

Guys, here I am. Just installed 36", put the satellite finder between the LNBF and the receiver, as suggested, and started blind scan. Although the finder measured max dB and produced high pitch sound but I got 0 Q and no channels were captured. What did I miss?

Also I wonder, with the pole/mast stands at 90 degrees and informed elevation at 38.1 degrees the dish looks almost perpendicular to the ground. I thought I need to tilt the dish more to the sky. The informed LNB skew is 11.8 degrees.

Also my receiver (Viewsat VS pro) didn't provide the following satellites provided by dishpointer.com:
1. 91W GALAXY 17 (G-17) | NIMIQ 1 | NIMIQ 2
2. 119W DIRECTV 7S | ECHOSTAR 14 | ECHOSTAR 7
3. 110W DIRECTV 5 (TEMPO 1) | ECHOSTAR 10 | ECHOSTAR 11
4. 82W NIMIQ 4
5. 97W GALAXY 19 (G-19)

Also how to get exact elevation and LNBF skew in these magnitudes: 30.9/27.9, 25.9/33.6, 39.4/2.7, 36.4/17.5, 38.1/11.8, while the dish angle precision is in the order of 2 degrees.

Thanks for sharing.

Adjust/skew the LNBF

Dishpointer will tell you what the skew is.
Make sure that you turn it the correct way per dishpointer. (left or right skew)
Like FAT AIR said, there should be a scale on the holder and or LNBF. Skew it to the closest degree.
Set the needle of your meter 1/2 to 2/3 way of the scale.
Move the LNBF in and out of the holder( farther away or closer to the dish) and see if the signal strength changes.
Change the angle Of the LNBF up or down a little bit , the way it is hitting the dish and see if the signal gets stronger.

Aim/adjust the dish very slightly to see if the signal is changing.

 

[oleleho]

Thanks, FatAir and Johann, I've followed the same instruction you guys suggested before I posted the above email. And I got zero Q(uality).

Johann, it's single LNBF with linear polarity. It's made by Seesat Taiwan (Ku-Band LNBF) with spec:
Input: 11.70-12.20 GHz
Output: 950-1450 MHz
Noise figure: 0.5dB (Typ.)
Conversion Gain: 55dB (Typ.)

Thanks, guys. I'll follow your suggestions carefully tomorrow and hopefully I'll get the luck this time.

 

[oleleho]

I was thinking as to whether the zero Q was because I used an analog TV connected to my receiver instead of the DTV during the satellite/channel finding. Could be this the case?

 

[FaT Air]

Ch3-4 output is NTSC (analog) If you can see the receiver menus all is good.
When moving the dish about, you MUST have an active transponder programmed and selected in the tune up screen in the receiver, Otherwise you'll see nothing. See TheList

Also, check to make sure the LNB setup L.O. (Local oscillator) for the LNBF is set to that listed on the LNBF. (Yours looks to be a normal N.A. version according to the numbers you listed, so the L.O would(should) be 10750 Mhz)

Also, move the dish in small steps, wait for the receiver to 'lock on'. 10 seconds is not unreasonable. (different frequencies/SR/receivers vary. Also the strength will apply)
Start with the dish elevation set to what dishpointer.com says, but to one side of the 'line' and move it towards and beyond the 'line'. If nothing try with the dish slightly higher, and again lower, if needed. Repeat as necessary. When you get it, micro adjustment to get "peak" signal. Mark on the back of the dish how far off the elevation scale is to what dishpointer says. (Saves time 'down the line')

 

[johann12]

Looks like you are not aiming at a satellite yet.
Set your dish a few degrees ( 4 decrees or so) lower than dishpointer says.
Move your dish 4-5 decrees to the left and then 4-5 degrees to the right.
Nothing yet ?
Set dish 1/2 to 1 decrees higher and then move dish 4-5 decrees to right and then 4-5 decrees to left.
Nothing yet.
Repeat until you get a stronger signal.
Use a pattern like you would spray paint the sky.


The degree marking on dishes may be off a little bit so use those degree marking as a reference only.
I had a dishnetwork dish one time to play with to get FTA and it was off by 6 degrees and I had to set it higher.

 

[oleleho]

Guys, I followed all your suggestions above, including moving the dish and the pole here and there (left-right, up-down) and I think I found the best signal, indicating by the highest level in the satellite finder. And yet my Q is still zero so that no TV or radio was captured. I aimed Galaxy 19 (97W) and tp 11836, 11929, etc, and still no luck. I also checked the LNBF skew position, same situation.

I checked in the other forum on Viewsat VS Pro receiver somebody asked to do something in the menu (to delete this and that) but I was not able to get into that sub menu. Probably he talked about another receiver.

Any more idea, folks?

 

[northgeorgia]

Is it possible to take a picture of your setup and also where the dish is "looking" into the sky?