SPIDEY 3 Warning: Currently incompatible with many BR players

vurbano

On Double Secret Probation
Supporting Founder
Apr 1, 2004
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Newport News, VA
From AVRev:

"Spider-man 3 on Blu-ray is one of the Holiday season’s most highly anticipated releases on the 1080p high definition Blu-ray format but early adopters may have problems playing the disc in many of today’s Blu-ray players.

Using a review copy of "Spider-man 3" on Blu-ray on local tests at AVRev.com, the disc struggled to play in the brand new Samsung BD-P1400. After an excruciatingly long load-up time, the disc starts to freeze and skip from the very start. Audio dropping out, picture stuttering, you name it. Compared to the mainstream consumer’s expectation for DVD playback, most couldn’t make it to the actual film.

According to various reports, other players including units from Sony, Pioneer and other stand-alone Blu-ray players are reportedly having issues with the blockbuster and feature laden HD release.

Playstation 3 does come to the rescue. The game machine plays the disc like a champ. Although one of the first Blu-ray players on the market, the Sony Playstation 3 is without question the most reliable Blu-ray player on the market. While a game machine isn’t suited for many home theater applications, the lack of format incompatibilities paired with a low entry price makes the Playstation 3 the way many enthusiasts test the waters in a ferocious HD disc format war.

The release of Spider-man 3 on Blu-ray isn’t the first time that new blockbuster Blu-ray title has failed to play on existing machines. When "Pirates Of The Caribbean" 1 and 2 were released by Disney/Buena Vista, there was hardly a player out that could play the movies. All the first generation Blu-ray players required an immediate firmware update which requires a DVD-R disc being burnt on a PC and run on a machine or the units to be connected directly to the Internet. Each and every one of the AVRev.com reviewers and editors who were using the Samsung BDP-1000 were unable to play new Pirates Blu-ray discs without the firmware update. The new BD-Java encoding of disc (which was necessary for the interactive Liar's Dice game) ironically prevented the movie from playing. So a consumer pays $30 for a disc to watch the movie, and the bonus features of the disc make it not play at all. How intuitive is that?

"Pirates Of The Caribbean" wasn’t the end of Blu-ray titles being released and failing in many of the early players. Most recently, FOX released "The Day After Tomorrow" and "Fantastic Four: Rise Of The Silver Surfer" on Blu-ray. Both of these titles played on less than a handful of the players out there. Again, now it was the BD+ encoding of these discs reportedly that affected successful playback. A firmware update was needed by Samsung for the BDP-1000, which reportedly loaded the movie in an agonizing five plus minutes and then played the movie with more than its fair share of jitter, skipping, and freezing. The Samsung BD-P1200 reportedly did not play the movies at all. After inserting either of the discs, a screen appeared that stated the player could not play the discs and that a firmware upgrade was needed. Some of the newer players did better with the Fox and Disney titles. Playstation 3 still remains the most stable of the available players.

Consumers are struggling to understand why they need an HD disc player when DVDs work perfectly well in their systems. The difference between DVD and HD discs need to be seen and heard and then the upgrade is obvious. What is also obvious is the need for the Blu-ray camp to get their standards more stable so that studios can release top titles that work with relatively manageable number of Blu-ray players on the market. While the Playstation 3 is a tempting audience – it's not the only audience. A guy who drops $799 on a "top of the line" Blu-ray player, hooks it up via HDMI and is looking to the best video currently available doesn’t want to hear that his player won't play that latest disc or that he needs to spend hours burning and running firmware update discs before he can watch a new Blu-ray film."
 
Yep- a firmware upgrade is needed, at least for the Samsung 1400.
 
It was definitely a mistake for BD not to require an ethernet connection. Considering an ethernet connection is about $5 in parts (yes I know you need software) it would have made the lives of a lot of people much easier.

I have updated my HD-DVD (and PS3) many times using the connection. Way too useful. Lets not forget some of the HD-DVDs required updates too (shipped with notices in the box to play disc you needed to do an upgrade).
 
Early adopters are always going to be the guinea pigs. We get to test out hardware, software and report all the bugs. To me, the fact that BD is constantly changing means that good things are coming. One of the reasons I purchased a PS3 is because I did not want to purchase more then 1 BD standalone until all the standards were in place and supported completely by the BD standalone. And don't come back and say that the BDA did not publish when these changes (like BD Java 1.1 and BD Java 2.0) were going to happen and what features they would add to the format -- because they did. No early adopting BD user can say they did not know of changes coming to the medium because every forum there are HD-DVD fans who constantly point out that HD-DVD was full featured from the begining and BD supporters have to wait and possibly buy a new BD player. Are there not alot of early adopter HD-DVD users who have already stated that they are going to buy one of the 3rd generation HD-DVD players from Toshiba? When new product comes out with more features, faster use, quiter drives and at lower prices we all upgrade!

Going the PS3 route is just my way of doing things, I knew that many of the first BD standalones would not be able to do PIP and so those early adopters purchasing BD standalones were going to have to purchase a newer BD player -- hopefully for much less then the first with far more features -- to enjoy the Java features completely. Having said that, with an upgrade to their firmware all current BD players will be able to play the BD movie. While HD-DVD has been thouroughly flushed out as a format it is painstakingly obvious that HD-DVD has hit its ceiling as Transformers has shown. If 2 HD-DVD discs do not provide enough space to include a HD audio soundtrack then where will HD-DVD go? You can not say the triple layer HD-DVD discs because no current HD-DVD player can play them -- it requires a new lense and setting! And if it is as Diogen says and it is because of a bandwith limitation then HD-DVD has indeed hit its ceiling. There is nowhere else to go for the medium. What you are getting now is all you are going to get. And that is okay if you are not interested in a HD Lossless Codec with your movie.

The fact that BluRay has a much higher ceiling and continues to improve their product does not bother me nor should it bother any early adopter of BluRay. You don't go out and purchase the first generation of any product without expecting upgrades to hardware and software period. And that also includes the fact that in 18 to 20 months you might be purchasing another product to be able to enjoy newer features. That has
always been the nature of business. Sometimes I read where people say you can not really expect a game machine to be your movie player and that you need a dedicated standalone. In this instance, I chose the PS3 for my BD viewing solely on the basis of knowing that there were going to be changes and I wanted to not be a guinea pig as much as if I purchased a standalone. And since my purchase I have also picked up a few fun games for the PS3 (ROFM, Heavenly Sword and on the 30th Rachet and Clank) that I have really enjoyed. Next year when the BDA has started using BD Java 2.0 I will then purchase a dedicated BD player -- probably a Panasonic as they have always made the best DVD players and I don't expect them to be second in the BD market.
 
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While HD-DVD has been thouroughly flushed out as a format it is painstakingly obvious that HD-DVD has hit its ceiling as Transformers has shown. If 2 HD-DVD discs do not provide enough space to include a HD audio soundtrack then where will HD-DVD go? You can not say the triple layer HD-DVD discs because no current HD-DVD player can play them -- it requires a new lense and setting!

OK This is simply not true. Toshiba is still in testing and they have TL51 running on an XA1. It only required a firmware update.

DVD Forum: 51GB HD DVD Still Testing; Paramount to Up HD DVD Efforts in 2008 | News | AllthingsHiDef

and in the Rumor thread

HDM Rumor Thread Part Deux! Put all rumors here. - Page 12 - AVS Forum

I have also heard the same thing from a Toshiba rep. I have also heard that Denon is reconsidering their BD players.

S~
 
...And don't come back and say that the BDA did not publish when these changes (like BD Java 1.1 and BD Java 2.0) were going to happen and what features they would add to the format -- because they did.
Under NDA (Non-Disclosure Agreement), you mean, right? That is one of BD's biggest problem.
If you know for a fact some specifics about BD - you are under NDA and can't talk about it.
There is a good reason to believe that non-HD PiP spec was in BD for a long long time. Some were saying that at the time when it was considered heresy.
...I knew that many of the first BD standalones would not be able to do PIP and so those early adopters purchasing BD standalones were going to have to purchase a newer BD player...
...You don't go out and purchase the first generation of any product without expecting upgrades to hardware and software period...
...in other words, I knew I'll get raped and used lubricant... wish others did, too...
......it is painstakingly obvious that HD-DVD has hit its ceiling as Transformers has shown. If 2 HD-DVD discs do not provide enough space to include a HD audio soundtrack then where will HD-DVD go?
Is this your way of damage control after Spiderman f*ckup?
OK, HD might have problem in the future, BD has them now... Non-stop.
...Next year when the BDA has started using BD Java 2.0 I will then purchase a dedicated BD player
Profile 2.0 is optional by itself. Didn't you say everything is known and published?
...probably a Panasonic as they have always made the best DVD players and I don't expect them to be second in the BD market.
Sheeesh... That's an eyeopener.

Diogen.
 
How soon we forget. I"ve read posts that Happy Feet, Superman Returns, Children of Men and Smokin' Aces didn't play correctly on the HD-A1 until the 2.3 update was released. And some earlier Universal titles didn't play correctly at all once you got a half hour into them. Admittedly, all second hand, since I don't own a HD DVD player.

Both formats have had, and will have, problems. As the technology matures the firmware will be improved. Maybe the bugs will be worked out before J6P starts buying these players.

Remember when DVD first came out? A few bugs, such as the lip synch problem. And some players never did get smooth FF action. No firmware updates, as I recall. Toss and replace- at a time when DVD players weren't cheap. An internet connection is easy (for many/most), burning or ordering a CD is an option- or just use a thumb drive. Beats throwing away the player and buying a new one.
 
First of all, Toshiba might say they are testing the new 51GB discs but several sources have reported that this disc will not work in current HD-DVD standalones. Until Toshiba actually brings one out and puts something on it this news is just that news -- it is not reality. Gee, isn't it Hitachi who has reported making a 100gb BD disc that will play in current BD players? You can not discount Hitachi's statements and then believe Toshiba's -- they are fighting for their HD format and will say anything to keep their consumers happy. I will believe either of these companies when a movie actually shows up on one of these formats and works in a first generation player -- until then -- they don't work!

Diogen, how many DVD players have you owned? Do you even have the first one you bought? Technology marches on and consumers are always trading up -- for features, for quality, for price. Two years from now I doubt there will be alot of first gen players still being used as the main HD source in a Home Theater system. If that was the case, why would any company bring out a 2nd, 3rd or any generation of players in the format they support?

AS for my statements about HD-DVD the arguements are from you. You made them and now you want to debate them? I never made the statement about bandwith -- you did. Paramount was the one who made the statements about lack of space (even though they used two HD-DVD discs) and you want to debate them? You said it was not from a lack of space but a lack of bandwith! These are your statements!

As for using apples and oranges -- and you HD-DVD guys know exactly what I mean -- I have yet to see any BD supporter use an older HD-DVD title to compare to a current BD blockbuster for comparision of features and quality. But the HD-DVD fans do this time and time and time again. Everyone of you are guilty. Want to make a fair comparison of Transformers use Spiderman 3. Whether you like the titles are not they are both CGI heavy films. They both use two of their formats discs. They are both blockbuster titles for 2007. Now that is comparison that is fair and current.

Because if you want to compare older title releases maybe you should go to the year those Spiderman movies came out and find a comparable title on HD-DVD and do a comparison -- maybe you might just learn something.

Now after saying all that it does frost me that both camps seem to continuely put out sup-par products on both formats when dealing with older titles. Both the BDA and the HD-DVD groups are guilty of doing this. Who knows why except that maybe they see a bigger payday with a Transformers or Spiderman 3 then with a title released 5 or 10 years ago. Or maybe the process of turning a current hit into a HD release is significantly less then redoing an older one. In any case, they should always provide their very best effort in redoing an older release in HD. We sure are spending enough of our money on these titles so they should do the right thing and invest the right amount of time and money in releasing their older catalog titles on HD.
 
First of all, Toshiba might say they are testing the new 51GB discs but several sources have reported that this disc will not work in current HD-DVD standalones.

What sources, Josh, Bill? Show some links where experts have said it won't work rather than just continue to make broad statements as fact. It wouldn't have come up for approval in the DVD Forum , and passed, if it hadn't been tested. Originally it was supposed to be 45GB; however, it is easier to read 17 GB for some reason. I'll let some expert say why. Supposedly there is a TL51 title in the works and will be announced within the next few months. We'll see.

As for Hitachi's 100GB, I have neither said it won't work, nor have I debated whether it would be used.

S~
 
Diogen, how many DVD players have you owned? Do you even have the first one you bought?
Standalones - very few. I use an HTPC.
But the very first I got rid off a year or so ago (non-progressive Pioneer, IIRC). And it was playing all DVD's just fine... 10 years after the format was introduced.
Having to buy a new player to play movies for a format just 1 year old is a f*ckup in my books. Plain and simple.
New generations are introduced to do the job better (faster loading, bitstream, decoding, analog/digital, etc.).
If it's introduced to finally do the job - something went wrong with the format.

Diogen.
 
Luckily my 360 HD DVD automatically gets firmware updates.... No glitches with any discs so far.... I had Superman Returns stutter a little, but is was more due to my 8 yr. old's fingerprints rather than compatibility glitches...
 

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