Steroids vs Pete Rose

[geonaz]

With all that is happening with Sosa, McGuire, Canseco, Palmiero, Bonds, Rodriguez, Ramirez, Clemens and any other that I cannot think of right now does anybody else think it would be a good time to revisit the banning of Pete Rose? I am really not a huge of Pete's but he did not bet against his team. His acheivements were earned on talent alone, not chemically induced. At least I hope that is true. I know and understand why MLB has concerns about gambling but there was never any indication that Pete's weakness hampered his play and his desire to win. I realize some of the names above have not been proven to be abusers but they have been a topic of unpleasant discussions. Substance abuse damages even those that are innocent. It makes you wonder about any muscular player. I was going to give some examples but I don't want people to start accusing them or me of doing or knowing something. I am just frustrated about what is happening to the game I love. Love to read your thoughts

 

[Skyhi]

I feel bad for Pete Rose. He made a mistake and is paying the price. Gambling cannot be tolerated in sports, however. A major gambling scandal could ruin a sport, IMO. Therefore, I think MLB's zero tolerance policy is appropriate and must be applied to Rose.

 

[BillD1984]

With all that is happening with Sosa, McGuire, Canseco, Palmiero, Bonds, Rodriguez, Ramirez, Clemens and any other that I cannot think of right now does anybody else think it would be a good time to revisit the banning of Pete Rose? I am really not a huge of Pete's but he did not bet against his team. His acheivements were earned on talent alone, not chemically induced. At least I hope that is true. I know and understand why MLB has concerns about gambling but there was never any indication that Pete's weakness hampered his play and his desire to win. I realize some of the names above have not been proven to be abusers but they have been a topic of unpleasant discussions. Substance abuse damages even those that are innocent. It makes you wonder about any muscular player. I was going to give some examples but I don't want people to start accusing them or me of doing or knowing something. I am just frustrated about what is happening to the game I love. Love to read your thoughts

That makes two of us. :up


I'm so sick and tired of reading all the BS that's going on with these cheaters.
It's high time baseball says NO MORE, and takes this once proud game back to its roots! ZERO TOLERANCE!!!

As far as Pete Rose goes, I agree that it's time baseball revisited his HOF eligibility. Yes, he made a HUGE mistake, but he is one of baseball's all time greats. I'd like to see him get rewarded for what he accomplished on the field, which in his era meant something!

 

[anders5189]

I don't feel bad for Pete Rose. He is a POS. If he had just come clean years ago maybe he could be forgiven. His ban from the HOF has as much to do with his arrogance and years of lies as it does the gambling. As for the steroid cheats I say they deserve the same as Rose. You can't undo the record books, but they should never be allowed into Cooperstown. The ONLY way MLB can try to cleanse the wounds of the past is to not reward those who cheated.

 

[AntAltMike]

Did you kick people out of the Hall if they gamble after they are in it and out of baseball?

Like many people, I think Rose should be admitted as a player, with no mention of his post-playing baseball career.

 

[CharlesO]

I think it's high time that MLB separates Pete Rose/Player from Pete Rose/Manager/Person.

Pete Rose's on field accomplishments should be in the Hall of Fame, and I doubt that anyone would say that Rose didn't give 100% on the field.

As for Rose's gambling as Reds Manager....he has no excuse...he compromised the integrity of the game.
Yes, Rose only bet on his team to win....but what message was he sending when he did not bet on his team. Bookies who knew what Rose was doing would know the better on this and what it could be interpreted.

So induct Rose the player and don't mention his managerial role.

 

[Skyhi]

I'm fine with him being in the HOF as a player...he deserves it as much as anyone else in there. But I think he needs to be banned from all other parts of the game for life.

 

[Ramy]

I think Pete Rose should be in the HOF plain and simple. Even though I was a huge Reds and Pete Rose fan, he should never be allowed back in baseball. With all that said let me tell you why he should be allowed to be eligilbe for the HOF. There never was a rule that said if you were suspended for life that you would not be eligible for the HOF until Bud 'I have my own vendetta' Selig took it upon himself to create such a rule just to keep him out. That is why I think he should be eligible to be voted into the HOF.

 

[Jimbo]

I feel bad for Pete Rose. He made a mistake and is paying the price. Gambling cannot be tolerated in sports, however. A major gambling scandal could ruin a sport, IMO. Therefore, I think MLB's zero tolerance policy is appropriate and must be applied to Rose.

Don't you think 20 years in enough ?????

 

[Jimbo]

That makes two of us. :up


I'm so sick and tired of reading all the BS that's going on with these cheaters.
It's high time baseball says NO MORE, and takes this once proud game back to its roots! ZERO TOLERANCE!!!

As far as Pete Rose goes, I agree that it's time baseball revisited his HOF eligibility. Yes, he made a HUGE mistake, but he is one of baseball's all time greats. I'd like to see him get rewarded for what he accomplished on the field, which in his era meant something!

They will once he passes on, unfortunately they don't want him to have any thing to do with the game as long as Selig is around it will continue to be this way.

 

[Jimbo]

Did you kick people out of the Hall if they gamble after they are in it and out of baseball?

Like many people, I think Rose should be admitted as a player, with no mention of his post-playing baseball career.

I agree 100 % :up

 

[Jimbo]

I'm fine with him being in the HOF as a player...he deserves it as much as anyone else in there. But I think he needs to be banned from all other parts of the game for life.

He would be an absolutely positive for baseball if he were allowed to do something in baseball, he would be a great ambassador ....
Has anyone ever heard him say anything bad about the game itself ?

 

[salsadancer7]

That makes two of us. :up


I'm so sick and tired of reading all the BS that's going on with these cheaters.
It's high time baseball says NO MORE, and takes this once proud game back to its roots! ZERO TOLERANCE!!!

As far as Pete Rose goes, I agree that it's time baseball revisited his HOF eligibility. Yes, he made a HUGE mistake, but he is one of baseball's all time greats. I'd like to see him get rewarded for what he accomplished on the field, which in his era meant something!

I agree 100%! BUT remember, THIS is all due to ownership NOT WANTING and NOT LIKING a strong commissioner and appointing one of there own. The players do not escape blame either. It is time for the players union to realize that without an OVERALL caring for this game, they would more than likely pumping gas somewhere instead of throw, catching and hitting a baseball for millions of dollars.

As for Pete Rose, I have alwasy said he belongs in the HOF for his CAREER AS A PLAYER....all his gambling issues came AFTER HE RETIRED!!! So, allow him in the HOF but ban him from ever being part of an teams organization again....period, end of story.

 

[salsadancer7]

I don't feel bad for Pete Rose. He is a POS. If he had just come clean years ago maybe he could be forgiven. His ban from the HOF has as much to do with his arrogance and years of lies as it does the gambling. As for the steroid cheats I say they deserve the same as Rose. You can't undo the record books, but they should never be allowed into Cooperstown. The ONLY way MLB can try to cleanse the wounds of the past is to not reward those who cheated.

SO in other words....IF you were busted for smoking pot when you were a kid, say around 16 years old, and applied for a government job in your 40s....too bad, so sad...no job for you??!! EVEN IF YOU WERE CLEAN since?

Sorry...but UNLESS Peter Rose was betting WHILE he was a player....his playing past should have NOTHING to do with his managing past.

 

[Skyhi]

Don't you think 20 years in enough ?????

No. I'm fine with a lifetime ban on players/coaches who place bets on their own sport. Not knowing the outcome of a game is the reason we love sports....if there's even an appearance of impropriety, the game is severely damaged.

 

[Skyhi]

He would be an absolutely positive for baseball if he were allowed to do something in baseball, he would be a great ambassador ....
Has anyone ever heard him say anything bad about the game itself ?

You're probably right, but they need to enforce a zero-tolerance policy no matter who the perpetrator is. It's too bad....I'm all for second chances, but there are some rules that cannot be broken. A baseball manager betting on baseball games is one of them.

 

[Ira Lacher]

Here's why I think Pete Rose was far worse for baseball than the performance-enhanced players:

1. Baseball discreetly tolerated the use of performance enhancers and has done this since the days of "greenies." (Read Jim Bouton's Ball Four.) Baseball is being incredibly hypocritical by cracking down on players who only followed approved custom. On the other hand, baseball has had a fierce and consistent anti-gambling stance since the 1919 Black Sox scandal.
2. Enhanced players did not do anything to take away from the efforts put into their performances -- in fact, they amplified them! Gambling on an outcome of a game always introduces the possibility of doing something to make the game reach your desired outcome, which could include losing. That's why point-shaving scandals erupt.
3. Other factors have affected baseball records than whether players are taking performance-enhancing substances such as expansion, ballpark design, the makeup of the ball itself, artificial turf, scheduling, and domed stadiums. For example, ERAs have ballooned from where they were in the Sixties and Seventies and not only because of more runs being scored. (Because pitchers are giving up the same number of runs but pitching fewer innings.) The change of statistics must be examined in toto, not only as they relate to the use of performance-enhancing substances.
4. Gambling is worse because sports depends on the absolute and unshakable belief of its fans that the outcome of the game depends on nothing more than the abilities of the players, managers and officials combined with the inherent random acts of fortune. When this belief is compromised, confidence crumbles and will never come back.

In short: keep Pete Rose out of the Hall; live with Bonds, Sosa, McGwire, Ramirez, etc., and let's move on.

 

[Ramy]

Here's why I think Pete Rose was far worse for baseball than the performance-enhanced players:

1. Baseball discreetly tolerated the use of performance enhancers and has done this since the days of "greenies." (Read Jim Bouton's Ball Four.) Baseball is being incredibly hypocritical by cracking down on players who only followed approved custom. On the other hand, baseball has had a fierce and consistent anti-gambling stance since the 1919 Black Sox scandal.
2. Enhanced players did not do anything to take away from the efforts put into their performances -- in fact, they amplified them! Gambling on an outcome of a game always introduces the possibility of doing something to make the game reach your desired outcome, which could include losing. That's why point-shaving scandals erupt.
3. Other factors have affected baseball records than whether players are taking performance-enhancing substances such as expansion, ballpark design, the makeup of the ball itself, artificial turf, scheduling, and domed stadiums. For example, ERAs have ballooned from where they were in the Sixties and Seventies and not only because of more runs being scored. (Because pitchers are giving up the same number of runs but pitching fewer innings.) The change of statistics must be examined in toto, not only as they relate to the use of performance-enhancing substances.
4. Gambling is worse because sports depends on the absolute and unshakable belief of its fans that the outcome of the game depends on nothing more than the abilities of the players, managers and officials combined with the inherent random acts of fortune. When this belief is compromised, confidence crumbles and will never come back.

In short: keep Pete Rose out of the Hall; live with Bonds, Sosa, McGwire, Ramirez, etc., and let's move on.

Sorry I can't agree with you. Records have been broken by cheating, plain and simple. Rose never bet against his team, plus he did this after his playing days. I know managers have a lot of control over a game, but if you always bet on your team to win then that is another thing. Don't get me wrong, he should still be banned for life, but allow him to be voted on for the HOF.

 

[salsadancer7]

Here's why I think Pete Rose was far worse for baseball than the performance-enhanced players:

1. Baseball discreetly tolerated the use of performance enhancers and has done this since the days of "greenies." (Read Jim Bouton's Ball Four.) Baseball is being incredibly hypocritical by cracking down on players who only followed approved custom. On the other hand, baseball has had a fierce and consistent anti-gambling stance since the 1919 Black Sox scandal.
2. Enhanced players did not do anything to take away from the efforts put into their performances -- in fact, they amplified them! Gambling on an outcome of a game always introduces the possibility of doing something to make the game reach your desired outcome, which could include losing. That's why point-shaving scandals erupt.
3. Other factors have affected baseball records than whether players are taking performance-enhancing substances such as expansion, ballpark design, the makeup of the ball itself, artificial turf, scheduling, and domed stadiums. For example, ERAs have ballooned from where they were in the Sixties and Seventies and not only because of more runs being scored. (Because pitchers are giving up the same number of runs but pitching fewer innings.) The change of statistics must be examined in toto, not only as they relate to the use of performance-enhancing substances.
4. Gambling is worse because sports depends on the absolute and unshakable belief of its fans that the outcome of the game depends on nothing more than the abilities of the players, managers and officials combined with the inherent random acts of fortune. When this belief is compromised, confidence crumbles and will never come back.

In short: keep Pete Rose out of the Hall; live with Bonds, Sosa, McGwire, Ramirez, etc., and let's move on.

From AntAltMike:

Did you kick people out of the Hall if they gamble after they are in it and out of baseball?

Like many people, I think Rose should be admitted as a player, with no mention of his post-playing baseball career.

 

[televisionarchives]

Wow, How quickly we forget. Pete trashed people who accused him of doing it. He trashed the commissioner of baseball. And Rose lied about it for years. In a December 2002 interview, investigator Dowd stated that he believed that Rose may have bet against the Reds while managing them. It was only when Pete was trying to sell a book that he finally admitted publicly to betting on baseball games . Many believe that any chance he had to make it to the Hall Of Fame were closed after this. Rose thought because he told the truth is his book it would have the opposite effect.


And he bet while playing and also while a Manager of the Reds. Rose said so in his book.