Weird motor issues?

[arlo]

A real life saver is a digital angle gauge. I'm a firm believer and it helped me get my polar mount spot-on from 127W way out to 34W. Didn't take a day and not even after a week.
The usals motor (I'm lazy, so forgive me upper/lower case police). Is basically a polar mount.
Together with the PDF and the philosophy chart. And Advil. You'll get it eventually.

I helped a guy a while back finding true South using Dish Pointer and landmarks across his property.
My polar mount is big enough that sighting the North star at night was fairly easy.
The guy I helped happened to have a straight line from his dish pole to the corner of his garden.
And a trip to HD for a Klein digital angle gauge. Then finding his Southern most reference satellite came next.

Slowly working the arc and making minute adjustments to the mount. The protractor stampings on your usals motor should be for setup reference. And if the preliminaries are correct. Everything else should fall in place.
Watch signal strength as you gently pull/push the dish rim up and down. That will help with tweaking the settings adjusters.

FYI. I could probably dig up a legal pad with logs when I set mine up. Things like 84W-zero degrees.
The measured degrees needed to push/pull the rim to peak signal.
If you look at the philosophy image. 101W might have been " + (push the rim up X degrees to peak sig. Lets say 1.5 degrees). Then 103W would be close to the same. 105W might have read +1.0 degree.
As I get West across the "good signal" point on the chart. I start getting into the negatives. Have to start pulling the rim when before I had to push it up for peak. 117W and -1.5 deg. 121W -2.0 deg........
Do the math. Make a tiny adjustment to the mount. Do it again.
That's about all I got.

 

[cyberham]

A real life saver is a digital angle gauge....

An angle meter is very useful. I just download a free angle app to my smartphone and use that. Using USALS, you don't even need to know where due south is. You motor the dish using USALS to a known satellite and you then swing the whole dish assembly back and forth to peak that satellite. If all is done accurately, you're done.

 

[SatJoe44]

At latitude 36 degrees, dish elevation setting should be 54 degrees. Dish declination setting should be about 5.8 degrees. Your 33 degree number (just 3 degrees off your elevation) suggests your declination is not correct which means the dish will track satellites nearby in azimuth but will go off the track the further west or east you move the dish.

My thing is with usals going directly to all sats 97-105 if my numbers were off wouldnt it be going too far east or west when using go to x?

 

[SatJoe44]

An angle meter is very useful. I just download a free angle app to my smartphone and use that. Using USALS, you don't even need to know where due south is. You motor the dish using USALS to a known satellite and you then swing the whole dish assembly back and forth to peak that satellite. If all is done accurately, you're done.

If I move the dish in any way wouldnt it make it where usals would be off. If it is going straight to them now wouldnt it miss them with any adjustment made?

 

[cyberham]

What satellites to the east are you using to determine that you can't receive them? Give us the satellites and transponders you have tried aiming for so we can confirm if those transponders are even active. Use Lyngsat as a reference.

 

[FTA4PA]

From the description of what is happening it sounds like there are definitely adjustments to be made. See pic in post 2. One thing I would recommend is take a sharpie or pencil out and mark the location of everything where you have it now BEFORE you make any adjustment. That way you can get back to a starting point if it doesn't go well.

 

[SatJoe44]

What satellites to the east are you using to determine that you can't receive them? Give us the satellites and transponders you have tried aiming for so we can confirm if those transponders are even active. Use Lyngsat as a reference.

I use lyngsat. I see quite a few sats like 30, 53,58, 67. I hit 77, but have to move about a half degree to the west when i use usals on 77. My due south is 85. Like i said i am only cknfused because of my dish elevation. I am a bit of a perfectionist. I literally moved my dish assembly 20 times until i was at 12-13 snr on most tps on 97 and 99 and hitting florida channel at 14 and lotto at 16 to 17. The alex jones fluxes alot but i think it is more on them. I somedays hit jones at 16 and some days 10

 

[cyberham]

I use lyngsat. I see quite a few sats like 30, 53,58, 67. I hit 77, but have to move about a half degree to the west when i use usals on 77. My due south is 85. Like i said i am only cknfused because of my dish elevation. I am a bit of a perfectionist. I literally moved my dish assembly 20 times until i was at 12-13 snr on most tps on 97 and 99 and hitting florida channel at 14 and lotto at 16 to 17. The alex jones fluxes alot but i think it is more on them. I somedays hit jones at 16 and some days 10

You are fixated on a few satellites that are too near your due south position. Yes, you can receive them well. But if you have to adjust the USALS position any amount at all for 77W when your due south is 85W, then this means you are definitely not correctly positioned on the arc. If I were you...

I'd mark right on the dish, mast, brackets, as suggested above, using a felt tip pen all current settings so you could return everything back to where it was if necessary. I would then start fresh using all the advice given from everybody as though this was your first day. And see where that gets you.

 

[cyberham]

...I hit 77, but have to move about a half degree to the west when i use usals on 77...

This is a clue in this mystery. Once you have motored using USALS to 77W, loosen your one bracket so you can rotate the entire dish assembly to the west very slightly. Do this to peak 77W. Lock the azimuth bracket. Now adjust declination setting very slightly again to peak 77W.

Now if you motor back to 97W, it should be peaked too.

 

[SatJoe44]

This is a clue in this mystery. Once you have motored using USALS to 77W, loosen your one bracket so you can rotate the entire dish assembly to the west very slightly. Do this to peak 77W. Lock the azimuth bracket. Now adjust declination setting very slightly again to peak 77W.

Now if you motor back to 97W, it should be peaked too.

Thank you. I fined tuned 77 as well as possible, to about 15.5 to 16 snr, on a 36 inch dish, and then had to make some adjustments but now hitting 79 to 105 all at max, so its an improvement. Gonna check some farther east sats now. Only thing is my usals is about a half a degree off, but I can adjust that later. Point is if I am tracking a sat 8 degrees east of my due south and then 20 west of it I am getting close. Also the elevation is closer to 31 now.


Thanks for the help. I want to be setup perfectly.

This is a clue in this mystery. Once you have motored using USALS to 77W, loosen your one bracket so you can rotate the entire dish assembly to the west very slightly. Do this to peak 77W. Lock the azimuth bracket. Now adjust declination setting very slightly again to peak 77W.

Now if you motor back to 97W, it should be peaked too.

This is a clue in this mystery. Once you have motored using USALS to 77W, loosen your one bracket so you can rotate the entire dish assembly to the west very slightly. Do this to peak 77W. Lock the azimuth bracket. Now adjust declination setting very slightly again to peak 77W.

Now if you motor back to 97W, it should be peaked too.

Thank you. I fined tuned 77 as well as possible, to about 15.5 to 16 snr, on a 36 inch dish, and then had to make some adjustments but now hitting 79 to 105 all at max, so its an improvement. Gonna check some farther east sats now. Only thing is my usals is about a half a degree off, but I can adjust that later. Point is if I am tracking a sat 8 degrees east of my due south and then 20 west of it I am getting close. Also the elevation is closer to 31 now.


Thanks for the help. I want to be setup perfectly.

 

[cyberham]

...I want to be setup perfectly.

It's a good attitude. If you get really close using USALS but not perfect, you can just motor a couple bumps using diseqc commands as necessary and manually store that position in a memory in the motor rather than spending more time playing with USALS.

 

[SatJoe44]

It's a good attitude. If you get really close using USALS but not perfect, you can just motor a couple bumps using diseqc commands as necessary and manually store that position in a memory in the motor rather than spending more time playing with USALS.

Yes thats what I have always done, I am just trying to get it going. Been out of it for a while.

 

[SatJoe44]

It's a good attitude. If you get really close using USALS but not perfect, you can just motor a couple bumps using diseqc commands as necessary and manually store that position in a memory in the motor rather than spending more time playing with USALS.

How funny usals is driving dead nuts to 77 and like I said on 105 it takes about 10 bumps on my koqit, which is maybe a half a degree. Lol. I miss the old days where we had action on 72, 83, 87,89,91, 93, 95, and 103 as well!

 

[SatJoe44]

It's a good attitude. If you get really close using USALS but not perfect, you can just motor a couple bumps using diseqc commands as necessary and manually store that position in a memory in the motor rather than spending more time playing with USALS.

Well got it locked in now. I just tuned in 30 west in the mid 80s on quality, though USALS drives about a degree past the sat. So I am guessing if I am getting as far east as 30 at a high signal and so far 105 w I must be close to perfectly locked in the arc.

 

[cyberham]

...I just tuned in 30 west in the mid 80s on quality...

From your location, that's about a 68 degree swing to the east from your due south. And the dish face would be pointing visually toward the ground due to 30W's elevation of just 19 degrees for you. That's about all you can expect from a motor.

To get further east, if trees allow, you need to consider inverting your dish. This is what I do to get 180E which is just 13 degrees elevation from here.

 

[SatJoe44]

From your location, that's about a 68 degree swing to the east from your due south. And the dish face would be pointing visually toward the ground due to 30W's elevation of just 19 degrees for you. That's about all you can expect from a motor.

To get further east, if trees allow, you need to consider inverting your dish. This is what I do to get 180E which is just 13 degrees elevation from here.

Yeah I tried to go farther but it maxs out around 26 degrees. Lol. Oh well gonna try for the western ones now and see if the trees are indeed blocking my view.


One more thing have you noticed any outages during the day on 105? Thats a weird one for me and also montana pbs on 99. They just seem to vanish at times. Especially vkn on 105.

 

[arlo]

Looks like great progress today Joe. That's what makes these dudes so awesome.
I see worm clamps in your future. At the bottom of your dish mount clamps on the tubes they are bolted to.
Makes doing fine movements more controllable w/o the mounts sliding down due to the weight of the mount.
Sharpie marks. I went one further. Sharpie and scribe super fine lines in the ink to connect the lines.
"Perfect". Yup. Gonna' take time. Now that you're in the park, get that ball dead-knutz over the plate and *whap*...into the catchers mitt.
My danged Samsung phones are sensitive to metal using protrator/compass apps.
The dig. gauge don't care. You just have to be careful you use the same reference plane and locations when checking and making changes.

Cybes. Got me intrigued. My weak mind tells me that you're doing what I prefer. DISEqC mode. Not using "their" burned in positions where you may be off a touch. Like using a polar mount with actuator. Use encoder counts and store them in the controller.
Are you hinting that any DISEqC positional (encoder pulse counts) settings can be written to the motor memory itself? And USALS setings will be updated as well? So switching between modes after positional tweaks using DISEqC will (should be) carried over to USALS memory in the motor? I know what you're thinking. "Go get one and see for yourself". NO. I will not ax Claude or any AI <expeltive-deleted>. Haha!

 

[cyberham]

...noticed any outages during the day on 105? Thats a weird one for me and also montana pbs on 99. They just seem to vanish at times. Especially vkn on 105.

105W is a weird one, agreed. I happened to just check for it maybe 30 minutes ago. Nothing. I think their transponder was temporarily off. It will likely be back later if not already. And the Veterans channel is off frequently too. Maybe it's gone altogether? A blind scan only produced data transponders earlier.

If you look further west, there isn't a lot. Other than data transponders, you'll only find signals with video/audio on 115W (maybe if you can receive the CBC radio channels but they're encrypted anyway), 117W, 123W. Nothing on Ku further west than that.

 

[cyberham]

...My danged Samsung phones are sensitive to metal using protrator/compass apps...

...Are you hinting that any DISEqC positional (encoder pulse counts) settings can be written to the motor memory itself? And USALS setings will be updated as well? So switching between modes after positional tweaks using DISEqC will (should be) carried over to USALS memory in the motor?...

I use Samsung phones too. I just hold the phone edge against somewhere appropriate (Ku: middle of the dish edge; C: back of centre plate at dish rear) and quickly take a visual check. It's all approximate. Moving the dish up/down or back/forth is always necessary anyway to perfect the tuning. My app is called "Angle Meter".

Yes, any position can be stored into motor memory. No, storing any position manually into a motor memory has no effect on the USALS position which is calculated from your latitude / longitude. This is why your lat / long entered should be as precise as you can make it (to multiple decimal places). I use Google Maps zoomed in to my property to tell me those numbers. So switching between stored position mode and USALS mode will cause the dish to move slightly depending on how much you moved the dish before storing its position. So orient with USALS; store using diseqc. A marriage of technologies.

 

[SatJoe44]

105W is a weird one, agreed. I happened to just check for it maybe 30 minutes ago. Nothing. I think their transponder was temporarily off. It will likely be back later if not already. And the Veterans channel is off frequently too. Maybe it's gone altogether? A blind scan only produced data transponders earlier.

If you look further west, there isn't a lot. Other than data transponders, you'll only find signals with video/audio on 115W (maybe if you can receive the CBC radio channels but they're encrypted anyway), 117W, 123W. Nothing on Ku further west than that.

Yeah i got a ton of data tps out there up to about 110. Unfortunately looks like trees got me on anything past 107. Lets see what the leaves bring when they fall. Lol

Looks like great progress today Joe. That's what makes these dudes so awesome.
I see worm clamps in your future. At the bottom of your dish mount clamps on the tubes they are bolted to.
Makes doing fine movements more controllable w/o the mounts sliding down due to the weight of the mount.
Sharpie marks. I went one further. Sharpie and scribe super fine lines in the ink to connect the lines.
"Perfect". Yup. Gonna' take time. Now that you're in the park, get that ball dead-knutz over the plate and *whap*...into the catchers mitt.
My danged Samsung phones are sensitive to metal using protrator/compass apps.
The dig. gauge don't care. You just have to be careful you use the same reference plane and locations when checking and making changes.

Cybes. Got me intrigued. My weak mind tells me that you're doing what I prefer. DISEqC mode. Not using "their" burned in positions where you may be off a touch. Like using a polar mount with actuator. Use encoder counts and store them in the controller.
Are you hinting that any DISEqC positional (encoder pulse counts) settings can be written to the motor memory itself? And USALS setings will be updated as well? So switching between modes after positional tweaks using DISEqC will (should be) carried over to USALS memory in the motor? I know what you're thinking. "Go get one and see for yourself". NO. I will not ax Claude or any AI <expeltive-deleted>. Haha!