Warner is looking.....

[vurbano]

Im really going to contest that this post was moved to the war zone. I specifically placed it in the BD forum because it pertains to BD owners supporting Warner at a crucial time. I dont want it to be another pissing contest war zone thread.

I hear violins playing.

 

[Ilya]

Im really going to contest that this post was moved to the war zone. I specifically placed it in the BD forum because it pertains to BD owners supporting Warner at a crucial time.

Campaigns in support of one format against the other belong to the War Zone. Sorry...

 

[gadgtfreek]

I hear violins playing.

Exactly my point.

Campaigns in support of one format against the other belong to the War Zone. Sorry...

Well, opinions are like....

If thats the stance your gonna take, then ill save posts like this for another site. How a post encouraging BLU-RAY owners to buy BLU-RAY discs deserves to be in the war zone and get HDDVD babble, I have no idea.

 

[vurbano]

Exactly my point.



Well, opinions are like....

If thats the stance your gonna take, then ill save posts like this for another site. How a post encouraging BLU-RAY owners to buy BLU-RAY discs deserves to be in the war zone and get HDDVD babble, I have no idea.

I hear it playing louder for you.

 

[MW390]

I think this whole steak/appetizer thing is kind of nuts. IF interactivity is a non-starter in favor of HD or BD discs then what exactly is the superiority of BD? More real estate for what? Lossless audio which most people including experts concede is almost impossible to discern versus compressed audio? Please state unequivocally....WHAT is the technological superiority of BD over HD? 20Gb? And please dont bring up more backup storage. Optical media is one of the worst for backing up. Optical media is for archiving.1TB hard drives can be had for $300 and have a much higher data transmission rate.

 

[JoeSp]

Here is what the big differance is going to be between audio codecs 7.1 coming to BluRay first. There is also a big bandwith differance -- hence you are now going to see extras in HD on BluRay while they are still SD on HD-DVD. Another differance is with all the new BD stamping plants openning up in the US the last 6 months authoring a BD title is not only going to be productive but will probably become less expensive then HD-DVD. Once you build the base for the road -- paving it gets alot easier, faster and less expensive.

 

[allargon]

Here is what the big differance is going to be between audio codecs 7.1 coming to BluRay first. There is also a big bandwith differance -- hence you are now going to see extras in HD on BluRay while they are still SD on HD-DVD. Another differance is with all the new BD stamping plants openning up in the US the last 6 months authoring a BD title is not only going to be productive but will probably become less expensive then HD-DVD. Once you build the base for the road -- paving it gets alot easier, faster and less expensive.

Joe, there's no way Blu-Ray will be cheaper than HD. The damned coating alone prevents that from happening.

HD-DVD already has "Spatial Dynamics" with 7.1. I'm told that Lionsgate released a few 7.1 tracks on Blu. Your information is old.

SD vs. HD extras are due to laziness from the studio.

Warner's staying purple.

 

[ONUOsFan]

Joe, there's no way Blu-Ray will be cheaper than HD. The damned coating alone prevents that from happening.

HD-DVD already has "Spatial Dynamics" with 7.1. I'm told that Lionsgate released a few 7.1 tracks on Blu. Your information is old.

SD vs. HD extras are due to laziness from the studio.

Warner's staying purple.

I'm not going to argue specs because it's pretty pointless, but I don't buy your "laziness from the studio" quip. Warner produced the extras for Harry Potter in HD for the BD version - if anything, it was more work for them to have two different versions, so if they were being lazy they would have had HD or SD on both formats, not a mix. I'm not going to tell you it was because of space, because I don't have the facts to back it up, but it was something other than laziness.

 

[CochiseGuy]

If thats the stance your gonna take, then ill save posts like this for another site.

I saw your post in the Blu-ray forum; thanks for the suggestion. Although not a Potter fan, I took your advice and bought the HD DVD to voice my support to WB to continue offering consumers a choice in high-def; also to check out the web features. Glad I did. I joined 10 friends from the forums at HighDefDigest for a "Community Screening", and we had a blast. The host in NYC controlled the playback of our HD DVDs accross the country when we accepted & joined his "Screening" invitation through the web feature menu on the disc. We could text message with pre-set messages in the A-B-C-D buttons on the player's remote, or, as must of us did, with cell / PDA / PC logged into the hddvd.warnerbros.com web site and type our own messages. Some of the comments cracked me up, and I learned more about the characters from the HP fans. We coordinated pauses for b-room & kitchen breaks, and re-played scenes when someone pointed out something others had missed.

Yeah, not the way you want to spend your first viewing of dialog driven film noir, but a fun and creative way to enjoy a light hearted movie. I look forward to more use of this from Warner - although that means continuing to buy their HD DVD versions as even though my Panny BD player is only a month old, it will never, ever be able to do something like this.

 

[MW390]

Here is what the big differance is going to be between audio codecs 7.1 coming to BluRay first. There is also a big bandwith differance -- hence you are now going to see extras in HD on BluRay while they are still SD on HD-DVD. Another differance is with all the new BD stamping plants openning up in the US the last 6 months authoring a BD title is not only going to be productive but will probably become less expensive then HD-DVD. Once you build the base for the road -- paving it gets alot easier, faster and less expensive.

The number of stamping plants is not a technologically superior thing. It's an infrastructure thing. Besides, the HD guys said, it takes 5 minutes to make an SD stamper into an HD one. As for bandwidth......even the lowly 25Mb/sec of HDDVD is more than enough to fill an HD screen and then some. I believe HDTV is 2Mb/sec so HD has an extra 23. please tell me, if the dam can release 1 million gallons of water / second but your storm drains can only handle 100,000 gallons/sec what good is the dam? And please dont add there's a 4K HDTV to the discussion.

As for the extras in HD on BD,you guys all say just gimme the movie, that's all I care about. So again...let's leave out the extras...where's the superiority that justified the original $1000 price tag? If it's JUST THE MOVIE then HD is just as good and cheaper. And if HDDVD needs two discs who gives a flying F? And please dont give me this I don't wanna get up out of my arm chair and change discs. Alot of people around the world walk days and hours for clean water.

 

[MW390]

I saw your post in the Blu-ray forum; thanks for the suggestion. Although not a Potter fan, I took your advice and bought the HD DVD to voice my support to WB to continue offering consumers a choice in high-def; also to check out the web features. Glad I did. I joined 10 friends from the forums at HighDefDigest for a "Community Screening", and we had a blast. The host in NYC controlled the playback of our HD DVDs accross the country when we accepted & joined his "Screening" invitation through the web feature menu on the disc. We could text message with pre-set messages in the A-B-C-D buttons on the player's remote, or, as must of us did, with cell / PDA / PC logged into the hddvd.warnerbros.com web site and type our own messages. Some of the comments cracked me up, and I learned more about the characters from the HP fans. We coordinated pauses for b-room & kitchen breaks, and re-played scenes when someone pointed out something others had missed.

Yeah, not the way you want to spend your first viewing of dialog driven film noir, but a fun and creative way to enjoy a light hearted movie. I look forward to more use of this from Warner - although that means continuing to buy their HD DVD versions as even though my Panny BD player is only a month old, it will never, ever be able to do something like this.

I wonder if you can also get an a**hole talking on his cell phone to make it more life-like

 

[diogen]

Here is what the big differance is going to be between audio codecs 7.1 coming to BluRay first.

Last time I heard, humans have more fingers on their hands than movie masters having more than 5 discreet audio channels. Has this changed recently?

There is also a big bandwith differance -- hence you are now going to see extras in HD on BluRay while they are still SD on HD-DVD.

Bandwidth has nothing to do with extras, they are not loaded with the movie.
And haven't you said that you don't care about anything but the movie itself?

Another differance is with all the new BD stamping plants openning up in the US the last 6 months authoring a BD title is not only going to be productive but will probably become less expensive then HD-DVD.

Wow! That's a leap of faith...
How can authoring get more productive and cheaper depending on the number of plants doing disc replication?

Last time the replication issue came up (2-3 months ago), Sony's Terre Haute plant was still doing the majority of BD50,
Cingram and Singulus had some lines testing. Official yields (as reported by Sony!!) are around 80% for BD50 and 85% for BD25
(96%+ is the normal number for DVDs).

BTW, every single DVD replication line sold in the last year, can also produce HD DVD (takes about 15min to switch).
Every BD replication line is 2-5 Billion (don't remember where I saw this number) and can do nothing but BD. How can BD production become cheaper than HD?

Diogen.

 

[JoeSp]

Once the cost of the plants is covered the actual cost of pressing the discs becomes inexpenesive as compared to the cost covering the startup of the plants. This was one of the major points that most of the HD-DVD crowd liked to point out as the reason that HD-DVD was significantly less to make then BD. However, as I have pointed out, now that those plants are online and costs are covered the actual cost of making a BD should come down to the HD-DVD range. Besides, unless HD-DVD all of a sudden takes off in discs sales (without a big title like Borne that just doesn't happen) most of those plants will be used to make DVDs not HD-DVDs. You gotta make what sells to make money. The BD plants do not have to do double duty - they can just keep pressing out BDs.

 

[diogen]

...now that those plants are online and costs are covered...

What new plants of the Terre Haute size are online (over 100K discs a day)?
Two months ago there were none. That means if there are now, the costs are certainly not covered yet.

Sony's plants (if you believe Sony!!) is the only that can be in black.

Diogen.

EDIT: Please tell me what has changed since August-September when we had the only independent data about replication lines/yields...
BD's data looks either miserable or comes from Sony.
>300 HD DVD lines vs 20 BD lines: what does this say about mass marketing hidef? - AVS Forum

 

[teachsac]

Wasn't the conversion cost for BD plants 10x higher than HD DVD? Is there something going on in the HD world I don't know about? Making money somewhere? Oh yeah, must be all the BOGOs generating that cash.

S~

 

[teachsac]

As for bandwidth......even the lowly 25Mb/sec of HDDVD is more than enough to fill an HD screen and then some. I believe HDTV is 2Mb/sec so HD has an extra 23. please tell me, if the dam can release 1 million gallons of water / second but your storm drains can only handle 100,000 gallons/sec what good is the dam? And please dont add there's a 4K HDTV to the discussion.

HD DVD has 35Mb/s transfer rate max with the primary audio/video fitting within 30 and an additional five for supplemental features such as internet connectivity.

Mpeg4 on Dish I believe is at around 5 with mpeg2 a little higher. Gone are the days of 15+mb/s streams. OTA stations, providing there are no substations are around 14-15 in MPEG2. Hence the blocking. MPEG4 can get away with much lower bandwidth, but suffers from softness when bitstarved. There comes a point where you will notice no difference in quality. Even the revered talk said 12mb/s wasn't unreasonable using today's encoders.

S~

 

[diogen]

I believe HDTV is 2Mb/sec.

You are confused.
1080p HDTV screen has around 2 Million pixels (1,920x1,080=2,073,600).
The D5 master (most often used as a source for HD/BD) is around 270Mbps.
When compressed with modern codecs, about 95% of it is discarded.

Diogen.

 

[MW390]

You are confused.
1080p HDTV screen has around 2 Million pixels (1,920x1,080=2,073,600).
The D5 master (most often used as a source for HD/BD) is around 270Mbps.
When compressed with modern codecs, about 95% of it is discarded.

Diogen.

I stand corrected. So.....the question remains....if all most people want are the
movies where does BD's technological superiority trump HDDVD?

 

[BlackHitachi]

Would it not be great for one day to get a TRILOGY on one HIGH DEF DISK! With all the extras and 7.1!!! Who care what format you like!!:up

 

[diogen]

....if all most people want are the
movies where does BD's technological superiority trump HDDVD?

Have a look at this post
http://www.satelliteguys.us/1074464-post10.html

Blu-ray was designed this way from the start - nothing to do with beating HD per se.
Sony fought tooth and nail to keep any other codecs (except MPEG-2 they get most royalties for) out of the BD standard. But at some point (some claim because of Disney ultimatum) they accepted VC-1 and so it doesn't look like a defeat from Microsoft - H.264 as well. I think it was a smart move on Sony's behalf, or all BD encodes would be of the quality of the first The Fifth Element.

The question about whether BD's storage/bandwidth superiority offers any real advantages becomes more and more theoretical when talking about picture quality. VC-1/AVC encodes within HD constraints look hardly inferior to BD even when looking at frames in Photoshop. Warner uses BD's bandwidth to use more language soundracks... BD faithful talk about uncompressed PCM soundtrack superiority (7Mbps?!?)...

And the more time passes, the less of a discussion issue this will be: AVC/VC-1 will get to the point of being transparent to the master at 10Mbps and this issue will be dead.

Diogen.