Actuator mounting position

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montana16

Active SatelliteGuys Member
Original poster
Pub Member / Supporter
May 24, 2015
16
11
Rochester
Hello all.
I am new to the C band world but been in the KU world for years. I am also new to this site. So far it has been very useful and full of information and I thank you all for that.Sorry for the lengthy post.

Here is my question and the long paragraph after will give you more info on how I got there (if you choose to read it.)

After getting my dish aligned, the furthest west I can go is 133.0w hitting a mechanical limit. Actuator arm is all the way retracted. I know there are a few more further out, 135 and 137. I have about 3 inches between the actuator arm saddle bracket and the end of the outer shaft. Can I move the actuator arm closer to gain a few degrees on the dish?
Boot.jpg

(My thumb is where the outer shaft ends)

I picked up a 10 ft fiberglass dish a couple weeks ago. It is very old but seems to work.
Dish.jpg


I got the 4 inch pole in the ground and mounted the dish with some help.
Mount.jpg

I had to order a dish mover (vbox7,which is junk in my opinion) so I couldn't do any alignment until it was delivered. I got it a week ago and it didn't work right from the start. The connections on the back broke as soon as I put wires into the speaker clip jacks but I managed to make a connection. Once I was able to get power to motor, to my amazement, the dish moved to the west! Unfortunately, the button on top of the box to move it east didn't work. Luckily the remote control did work. I immediately was going to point the dish to south to begin alignment but the east movement with remote lasted about 4 clicks. So I thought the actuator arm was stuck or something or the motor was dead. I tried west and the motor worked and arm moved. Tried east again but nothing. I was looking for a reason to tear the actuator apart anyway because I was curious how it worked.
Actuator.jpg

So I did. It must be really old because the videos and pictures on the web were different than what I have. Anyway I was able to remove the motor and turn the gear by hand to see if there was anything stopping the shaft from extending. Nope. The shaft, with out any effort, extended out a good 18 inches or so and retracted just as easy. I was trying to understand the read switch and it seems it is a star wheel mounted at the end the the drive gear that hits a micro switch which has 3 wires.There are no limit switches that I can see.
Wiring.jpg

Anyway the arm seemed to move fine , especially for its age. I reassembled and tried again. No east movement. I decided to reverse the wires on the vbox7 and the dish now moved east only. I moved to dish so all was aligned to peak. Now I could at least do my alignment. I reversed wires again to track to the west. Got my latitude and declination set and pointed south. I do not have a dvb-s2 receiver but I have a Genpix skywalker and an old Veiwsat Xtreme. I was able to track about 11 satellites all the way down to 133.0 w. I was hoping to get a few more satellites. Vbox7 is on its way back and I am going to get one of those Titanium ASC1 when funds are available as they seem like a solid piece of equipment. Also looking into a TBS6983 pci-e card for dvb-s2 reception. Any recommendations on equipment would be appreciated. Thanks.
 
Welcome Montana16!

Typically, the actuator is mounted on the side that has the lowest satellite on the arc. For us on the West coast, the actuator is mounted on the East side to allow the best angle to drive the reflector off of the horizon. This would mean the actuator arm would be extended for the Western satellites. Is this possible for your install? On older dishes they often did not have this ability to select the mounting side as most installs only were aiming at a few satellites near the top of the arc.

Sounds like you definitely have a defective VBox. Hopefully the seller will replace without drama.

Nice dish! Quite the beefy mount! Trying to understand your switch configuration. Is the sensor counter a wheel that closes a switch on each pass or does the star wheel only close the switch at the ends of the arc?
 
Welcome to the site montana16 !!!

Yes the vboxes got worse and worse, so much so the distributor I was using stopped carrying them because of so many returns. They were not that great to start with unless you are moving a very small light weight dish, but the last batch I saw were just plain junk. A Titanium ASC-1 one is what you need, made like a tank.
 
Hmmm, what the pictures show and the way you describe it, it sounds like you have an optical sensor. They have three wires like in the pictures. A reed switch has only two wires. But then the VBox wouldn't move it at all. you would just see ER2 on the display. I would like to see a picture of your "micro switch".

:welcome to the site. Glad to have you aboard :)
 
Sorry. With all that typing, I forgot to say I am in New York between Rochester and Buffalo. As for the switch, check out the pics.

Wiring2.jpg
Read_switch2.jpg


And the microswitch (which I checked for continuity on all wires in both switch positions and never got continuity so need new switch) When I powered on the Vbox, I would get a number (seemed random but maybe not) but as soon as I moved dish, I would get ER2 but dish would move if I hit button on remote and still show ER2 message.

Switch2.jpg



Should I go back and shrink the size of the pics so easier to scroll through?
 
Well that is different. I have never seen a position switch like that. The VBox will show ER2 and not move the dish if it can't see a reed switch signal right away.
 
I think what we are seeing is a conversion to a mechanical switch from an optical sensor but still using the same signal the optical sensor produces.
 
Well you look like a "Hands On" kind of guy. :) So if you think you can make something work, I can send you a magnet wheel and reed switch that I used to mod a VonWeise that had an optical sensor. I have also used those parts on a Venture actuator. Just takes a little imagination to get these parts installed sometimes. I can post some pictures but my computer is down for a power supply until tomorrow night and I don't have access right at this time.
 
I will give most things a try as I want to learn and don't like to be charged a $100 to change a $3 part. How much you want for this optical sensor,Magic Static?

Also the microswitch has a Hall Effect sensor apparently so it is some type of optical switch after doing some research.

PS- Was a 49er fan in the Montana era. He went to KC and so did I. Still waiting for a playoff win since Montana retired.
 
Sorry, with your user name I mistakenly assumed you were from the Big Sky country!

The VBox probably wasn't defective and likely this switch isn't either. You might look at the optical converter that Magic Static just built in this thread:
http://www.satelliteguys.us/xen/index.php?threads/The-optical-AJAK.350527/

This switch requires 5Vdc then it will provide the sensor pulse counts. You could either adapt the switch to a reed type or provide the environment that the switch is built for. Magic Static's offer for a wheel and reed conversion probably would be much more accurate than this current switch set-up.
 
So I understand, the Vbox7 doesn't provide power to the sensor? I am new to this so I assumed it did. For the motor wiring,the box was sending out the correct voltage on one polarity setting but when reversed, it was not. The dish moved without the sensor being connected when the 'west' button was pushed. When I needed to move it the other way, I reversed motor wires and still pressed 'west' button and the dish would move in the other direction. Something definitely seemed wrong in the Vbox7. I tested with multi-meter. Besides, the buttons on top of the unit did not all work. I will test the switch with voltage applied and see if it reads anything. Also, the adapter doesn't show what pins are connected and currently I have no dish mover or ASC1. This site is very helpful.
 
Usually power on the controller's M1 and M2 wires is only present for a moment. If no sensor count is returned to the controller, the error message is displayed and no +/- dc voltage should be present on the M1/M2 terminals. The reed switch has low voltage/current that cycles open/closed by each passing magnet. I would expect that the front panel and remote operation would be identical.

You may have a defective VBox. Without a repeating sensor cycle after pressing East/West buttons, it would be difficult to troubleshoot.
 
Very interesting. Although the Vbox is headed back to vendor, it makes good reading and makes me feel that if I get any ideas, this group will help. Thanks for all the help.
 
Thank you, Magic Static, for the magnet wheel and reed switch. Installed on top of original without losing ability to go back original. Waiting for ASC1 to be delivered this week to test functionality. Again, thanks to Magic Static.
reed_switch_new-1.jpg

reed_switch_new2-1.jpg
 
More pictures of the wheel and switch used in other actuators :) The VonWeis converted from optical. and a old Venture I use for a test bench motor.
The VonWeis, I just glued the magnet wheel to the optical slot wheel and removed the optical sensor and mounted the reed switch in its place.
VonWeisMod 004.JPG VonWeisMod 008.JPG

In the old Venture, I took the original glass reed switch out of the housing it was in and put another glass reed in the same housing but on the other side. This lined it up for a larger diameter magnet wheel too. I also have used the same reed switch as Montana 16 is using in this one too. I can be mounted to the same spot as the original switch.
VentureMod 001.JPG VentureMod 017.JPG
 
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