Gbox + Von Weise actuator with optical sensor

[yankee495]

I hate to resurrect such an old thread but this was some fantastic research and innovation to solve an old problem! I say old problem because I have sort of the same problem but not with an ASC1. I've got a pretty good electronics background and am a ham operator etc. I like to say I've been trying to electrocute myself since I was 10 or so! I also have a nice older Tektronix 468 oscilloscope. I am however, a bit slow sometimes.

I never really thought noise was my problem but I am betting it is! I never thought of monitoring it with a scope! Duh! I'm using a Gbox and a Von Weise actuator that has an optical sensor and the Gbox doesn't supply the +5 votes for the sensor. I do have good ribbon cable that is a few years old but it is in great shape as far as I know.

So I needed +5 volts and the easiest way was to use an old Motorola phone charger to supply the sensor power. It works, woohoo! But, it loses count (over time) and I believe a modified version of this project could be used to filter the noise, convert the sync and supply the voltage. It'd be real nice if all of this fit inside the Gbox but a standalone device may be better.

What I have not been able to find is the details on how this was put together and what components were used other than the Standex-Meder Reed Relay SIL05-1A72-71D. I would only need a small board with the components. The Gbox has a black space on the back which I believe was for a polarity controller. I wish it had it, but it doesn't. That area could be used for connections or maybe I could make an external box to make it simpler to install if someone wanted to copy it. I believe it'd work fine as a standalone add-on.

I have searched and read all over the forum but can't find the details of when this all came together and how it's wired etc. I still intend to get an ASC1 fairly soon because I absolutely am tired of not having skew control, but in the meantime it'd be awesome to get a Gbox working properly with an optical sensor. Am I overlooking the details somewhere? Are they here on the forum?

Thanks.

 

[Magic Static]

I have done some work with a few of N0QBH's projects on polarity controls and played around with optical sensor and a adapter for it. Check these threads.
http://www.ringolake.com/pic_proj/satellite/sat_projects.html

http://www.satelliteguys.us/xen/threads/neat-adaptation-of-my-corotor-polarity-skew-control.343336/

http://www.satelliteguys.us/xen/threads/the-optical-ajak.350527/

 

[Trust]

yankee495 do you mean this G-Box ?

The red stripe give you + 5 v

I glued a fifth connector (black) in the back and disconnected the connection from "sensor +" and used that red one for the 5 v
(Moved the F-connectors a bit to the right )

 

[yankee495]

yankee495 do you mean this G-Box ?

The red stripe give you + 5 vView attachment 117800
View attachment 117802

I glued a fifth connector (black) in the back and disconnected the connection from "sensor +" and used that red one for the 5 v
(Moved the F-connectors a bit to the right )

Yes, that's it. I figured there was +5v in there somewhere but I just used a phone charger at the time and never investigated it further because it worked. I didn't know if an optical sensor would work at all with it so I took the shortcut to find out. Magic Static and Ponny have devised a little device that senses the pulse and uses a mini relay to produce a new abrupt on/off pulse for the counter. With what you have there it could be put together very easily. I haven't fund the details on what they did.

I have a good junk box with old speaker/power terminals in it that I can use and I even have chassis mount F connectors so I'm all set. A small piece of circuit board is also not a problem. I may even have a compatible relay similar to what they used but could buy one if I need to. It looks like I'm 90% of the way there.

Thanks man!

 

[KE4EST]

Broke the above posts off to a new thread.

 

[Magic Static]

Here is another thread modding a VBox with polarity control
http://www.satelliteguys.us/xen/threads/another-n0qbh-polarity-control-project.350377/

 

[yankee495]

I have done some work with a few of N0QBH's projects on polarity controls and played around with optical sensor and a adapter for it. Check these threads.
http://www.ringolake.com/pic_proj/satellite/sat_projects.html

http://www.satelliteguys.us/xen/threads/neat-adaptation-of-my-corotor-polarity-skew-control.343336/

http://www.satelliteguys.us/xen/threads/the-optical-ajak.350527/

That's some great stuff, great projects. I read through that Optical AJAK thread and didn't see the details for your adapter which is what I think I need to stop the miscounts on my Gbox with a Von Weise actuator that uses an optical sensor. It's not horrible but if you're doing some feed hunting it accumulates much quicker. It'd sure be worth a try.

 

[Magic Static]

That's some great stuff, great projects. I read through that Optical AJAK thread and didn't see the details for your adapter which is what I think I need to stop the miscounts on my Gbox with a Von Weise actuator that uses an optical sensor. It's not horrible but if you're doing some feed hunting it accumulates much quicker. It'd sure be worth a try.

There is a post here somewhere with a diagram of the adapter drawn over a picture of the adapter on the back of an ASC1. The only components are the reed relay, the 3 terminal block and four spade connectors.

 

[yankee495]

There is a post here somewhere with a diagram of the adapter drawn over a picture of the adapter on the back of an ASC1. The only components are the reed relay, the 3 terminal block and four spade connectors.
View attachment 117803

I must've overlooked it but I'll find it. I even did a Google image search with your user name and missed it. Anyway, I pretty much understand it, I think. The +5v pulse from the optical sensor triggers the relay which feeds a new clean/stable +5v source to the controller in an abrupt on/off pattern with no actual wires that carry the noise from the actuator reaching the controller.

I'll get it and I sure do appreciate the help Magic Static, and all of the others who come up with these great ideas. It was very interesting watching you guys get so aggravated but keeping after it until you solved it. I've been there more than once and sometimes it's so simple you can't get it. I still want an ASC1 though, I've just had a few unexpected expenses and don't want to let go of that much cash right now with high AC bills etc coming. I could, but fall will be a little better which isn't too long from now.

Oh, and my Gbox has lasted and worked well. I've had it 5-6 years so I guess I got a good one. It makes me wish I'd have bought a spare back then of more than one item, like an extra DMX741. I also plan to get a newer receiver but I want to make sure it's a good one. I really just need FTA TV, not Youtube or all of that, but I'll take it if it's a good box.

 

[Magic Static]

The +5V runs the primary side of the relay. This closes the secondary and uses the +12V of the sensor circuit in the GBox to produce your magnetic reed switch pulses.

 

[yankee495]

I think I can figure it out from there. My net is goofy. Been out for a bit now and may not last long. I think heat may be affecting a router in the neighborhood not just my LNBF! It's happened before, or water in a split line one time. I'll be sure and let you know how this turns out. Thanks again Magic Static.

 

[Trust]

So I needed +5 volts and the easiest way was to use an old Motorola phone charger to supply the sensor power. It works, woohoo! But, it loses count (over time) .

Aint the phone charger the trouble maker ? its probably not given you a stabilized 5 volt .

 

[Lone Gunman]

Von Weise with an optical sensor? Hummm, ever thought about converting it to a regular magnetic reed switch? What model Von Weise is this anyway?

 

[yankee495]

Von Weise with an optical sensor? Hummm, ever thought about converting it to a regular magnetic reed switch? What model Von Weise is this anyway?

You would ask. I't a J85 or something like that but I think that refers to the motor style only. I did know all of the details but I forgot. I'm the guy who took your advice and glued it! Still working great as far as the magnets staying in place! Thanks again.

I posted back then, in January, that I slapped a phone charger on it and it has worked near flawlessly since but it was losing a few counts over time. Not real bad, but it was. Now, this weekend it started showing E-2 on the Gbox. I soldered a couple suspect joints in the Gbox and it worked like new for about 24 hours, and now it's doing it again. This was after checking the sensor, all wires and everything I could think of. It's intermittent, we all love that.

It seems like it works at night and not in the afternoon. I don't know if the sensor can become heat sensitive and there is one transistor in there and I know they can be. I also don't know much about failing Gboxes and if they start erring. I do have a parts Von Weise just like it I could take the sensor board out of. I've never had problems with a good Von Weise or my Gbox so I don't know how they act when failing. I didn't change anything before it started the E-2 errors.

It's like this one in Magic Static's post here.

http://www.satelliteguys.us/xen/thr...ffect-and-reed-isolation.351323/#post-3693423

And yes Trust, the phone charger could be a problem but it worked pretty darn good since I had to switch to it when my acme nut in another smaller, lighter Von Veise stripped.

 

[Titanium]

Glued magnets in an optical sensor? If the actuator has a wheel with magnets, it is a reed switch sending the open/close cycles. If the wheel has slots to allow the light to reach the sensor, then it is an optical sensor. There is some confusion here, is it just me???

 

[beavs2112]

Glued magnets in an optical sensor?

No yankee495 glued the 36v motor magnets back to the housing. they often come loose. and he detailed in another thread how he has a 5 wire VW. (still no pictures though). hope that clears up some of the confusion.

 

[yankee495]

Glued magnets in an optical sensor? If the actuator has a wheel with magnets, it is a reed switch sending the open/close cycles. If the wheel has slots to allow the light to reach the sensor, then it is an optical sensor. There is some confusion here, is it just me???

Yes, it's you, but it's my fault, I'm sorry. Lone Gunman glued the magnets back in a motor (nothing to do with a sensor)!

http://www.satelliteguys.us/xen/threads/von-weise-motor.341541/

I did the same because it was the only option I had and it works great! It's had a slight count loss since I installed it in January 2016. I had thought my slight count loss over time was noise like what Magic Static had worked on.

Yesterday I went out to the dish and had my wife move it and it sounded good to me. There is no problem at all with the dish moving like if the magnets had came loose, it's a count error which started out of the blue. Even when it errors it'll jump off of the sat in that small error time. If it doesn't error it sails right along! It's moving fine, motor wise, when it doesn't error.

I was going to look into if noise was the cause of my count loss but this past weekend it started erring. I came here to look at Gbox errors and seen I had a notification from Trust and Lone Gunman. The topic of the thread wasn't the motor magnets, but sensor noise causing miscounts and an adapter Magic Static made for the Titanium ASC1 and if it would help my miscounts. Now, I have error E-2 but I never changed anything. The slight miscount accumulated over time and I'd just resync it but would've liked to have eliminated it. Hope that catches you up.

Also, I'll probably start a new thread about the E-2 error if I can't fix it after tons more testing.


Right now I'm assuming the error may be coming from noise and maybe going to break out the scope. I don't think it's bad wiring, I tied them together outside and had good solid continuity inside between them. I think the noise may have gotten worse to the point of causing errors.

 

[Titanium]

Thanks for the clarification on the magnets!

As motors age and brushes wear, they often increase the RF noise output. Have installed many capacitors on motors to minimize the noise.

Do the S1/S2 wires have a shield separating them from other wires and is the drain wire connected to structure ground? Is the dish grounded? Is the dish bonded to the structure ground?

Lack of shielding or improper grounding/bonding are common sources of interference with sensor circuits. Improper bonding between the dish and structure ground can cause a voltage potential that may increase/decrease with soil conductivity.

You might disconnect all wires including coacts inside the house and use a simple VOM to test for voltage in excess of .5v. One probe goes to the outlet ground the other probe to each wire including coax core and braid. Voltage in excess of 1/2 volt on any wire indicates that there is a voltage potential occurring between the dish and structure and can cause havoc with electronics.

 

[Lone Gunman]

Yankee495 reason I asked about converting it over was that I "thought" I had a spare 8 magnet wheel I could send you and you could just buy the reed switch and convert it. I looked for that 8 magnet wheel this afternoon though and it's nowhere to be found? I might have used that one on that Von Weise I fixed up and mounted on that Raydx dish I'm still testing. Sorry.

 

[yankee495]

Yeah, thanks Lone Gunman and yes the dish is grounded on a pole out on the south side of the yard. I finally got time and went out today to swap the whole sensor board and the one I just put in will not count at all...nothing. There is a transistor and a capacitor on that board. I guess I'll change the capacitor on the original board and reinstall it.

When we had below 70 degree nights it ran good but wouldn't work in the daytime when it warmed up. It's really odd because my LMBF is doing the same thing, drifting when it warms up (worked good in the winter around 60 degrees and below). But the sensor just started doing it out of the blue and the LNBF was a slow process that I noticed and tried tweaking the dish etc. It's drift.

This is an old actuator that I have had in the basement for decades! I dug it out when my smaller Von Weise stripped the acme nut. This means this is the first time I have ever used it and I had to glue the magnets back into do that. It ran beautiful is colder weather. I'm hoping I can fix it by the replacing the capacitor and maybe the transistor if I can identify it and find one around here. I appreciate the help.

And, Brian...when can I get a good LMBF (be back in stock)? I've been watching for a long time on your site and Ebay.

Oh, I forgot. I have a Uniden standalone dish mover and I even have the little remote somewhere. I don't intend to use it for this, but just to test with and I forgot to do it before I changed the sensor board. It could help pinpoint Gbox or wiring problems. It's what I used to run the motor back and forth for a while when I glued the magnets in. I had...no clue where it went, but I had the matching stereo sound receiver...big thing in those days!

This little mover rocks! I don't know why I didn't try that FIRST other than I thought it was going to be a simple loose wire or something.