Marlins BENCH Ramirez INDEFINATELY for 'lack of hustle'...

[salsadancer7]

Good points, however there is another way to look at it. With a strong lineup, the better players are often pitched around. When the lineup is weak, you can afford to go after the stronger hitters. That's basic baseball. I did see that Ramirez apologized, good thing for him! As far as Manny and the situation in Boston, look what it ended up doing there. As good as he made the team, they are today paying for the turmoil he caused. They still don't have a strong leader there, IMHO.

When you have the line-up Boston has had since Hanley has been in the Bigs, you could not afford to pitch around to many players. You could afford to pitch around Hanley. I rather pitch around Hanley to face Dan Uggla than pitch Youkilis and pitch to ....pick your poison...Beltre...Big Papi...

 

[SandraC]

Yet somehow Albert Pujols has managed to become the best hitter in baseball, while he has for the better part of his career been the only hitter in the Cardinals' lineup.


Sandra

 

[Jimbo]

Yet somehow Albert Pujols has managed to become the best hitter in baseball, while he has for the better part of his career been the only hitter in the Cardinals' lineup.


Sandra

Difference being, Pujols has grown into a leader, Ramirez hasn't.

 

[SandraC]

Difference being, Pujols has grown into a leader, Ramirez hasn't.

True that, but for the purposes of this part of the discussion, we're just talking about hitting.

The point was that Hanley Ramirez does not have the same opportunity to be as good a hitter as Youkilis, because he is not in as good a lineup as Youkilis. Albert Pujols has become the best hitter in baseball bar none, in a lineup that does not come close to the Red Sox lineup either.


Sandra

 

[Jimbo]

True that, but for the purposes of this part of the discussion, we're just talking about hitting.

The point was that Hanley Ramirez does not have the same opportunity to be as good a hitter as Youkilis, because he is not in as good a lineup as Youkilis. Albert Pujols has become the best hitter in baseball bar none, in a lineup that does not come close to the Red Sox lineup either.


Sandra

Certain players just have it ....
Pujols would do great anywhere.
Lots of times it depends where you end up playing, some play above that.

I think Jeter is that way, he would have been great regardless of where he's played, lots of times, it's where you go, other times it's what they make of where they are.

 

[salsadancer7]

True that, but for the purposes of this part of the discussion, we're just talking about hitting.

The point was that Hanley Ramirez does not have the same opportunity to be as good a hitter as Youkilis, because he is not in as good a lineup as Youkilis. Albert Pujols has become the best hitter in baseball bar none, in a lineup that does not come close to the Red Sox lineup either.


Sandra

Albert is the exception. Think of the gaudy numbers he would have is he WAS in that lineup.

You are arguing the wrong person. The argument is more about YOUKILIS' numbers in a great line-up...NOT Ramirez is very good numbers in a so-so lineup.

 

[Jimbo]

Albert is the exception. Think of the gaudy numbers he would have is he WAS in that lineup.

You are arguing the wrong person. The argument is more about YOUKILIS' numbers in a great line-up...NOT Ramirez is very good numbers in a so-so lineup.

But there are others like that as well.

If Hanley were to be traded to Seattle (just picking a city out of the spotlight, nothing wrong with Seattle), would he shine and make the Mariners that much better, of fade away ?

 

[SandraC]

Manny Ramirez went to the Dodgers mid-season, and had the best 50-something game stretch in the history of baseball...AFTER leaving the protection of the Red Sox lineup..

Ichiro has been a 200 hit machine every year in Seattle in a so-so lineup.

And that's just off the top of my head. I'm sure if I tried I could come up with a lot more.


Sandra

 

[salsadancer7]

But there are others like that as well.

If Hanley were to be traded to Seattle (just picking a city out of the spotlight, nothing wrong with Seattle), would he shine and make the Mariners that much better, of fade away ?

He would still put up his good numbers....but not MONSTER numbers ....in my opinion.

Remember....Hanley won the batting title last year....

 

[Jimbo]

Albert is the exception. Think of the gaudy numbers he would have is he WAS in that lineup.

You are arguing the wrong person. The argument is more about YOUKILIS' numbers in a great line-up...NOT Ramirez is very good numbers in a so-so lineup.

I understand your point Salsa, but you have to take a few other things into consideration, Youk is 31, in his prime or slightly over it, where as Handley is just coming into his, as Handley matures you may find that he ends up with much better numbers, he's just coming into the point that youk has already been to.

 

[salsadancer7]

I understand your point Salsa, but you have to take a few other things into consideration, Youk is 31, in his prime or slightly over it, where as Handley is just coming into his, as Handley matures you may find that he ends up with much better numbers, he's just coming into the point that youk has already been to.

I am not disagreeing with you.

 

[salsadancer7]

Manny Ramirez went to the Dodgers mid-season, and had the best 50-something game stretch in the history of baseball...AFTER leaving the protection of the Red Sox lineup..

Ichiro has been a 200 hit machine every year in Seattle in a so-so lineup.

And that's just off the top of my head. I'm sure if I tried I could come up with a lot more.


Sandra

Have you SEEN the Dodgers lineup? And Ichiro is litterally just a singles hitter. He is a not a complete hitter....in other words, hits singles, hits for power and drives runs in bunches AND steals bases. 1st two years of his career as a starter, he leadoff and had 51 steals both years. ALSO, Ichiro is a leadoff hitter, they will not be pitching around him.

 

[SandraC]

Have you SEEN the Dodgers lineup?

The Dodgers lineup in 2008, the one he left the vaunted Red Sox lineup for, hit a total of 137 home runs for the season, and was 13th out of 16 NL teams in home runs. And that's INCLUDING the 17 Manny hit in 53 games. Murderer's Row they weren't.

Yet Manny STILL hit better in LA that year than he did in Boston.

And Ichiro is litterally just a singles hitter. He is a not a complete hitter....in other words, hits singles, hits for power and drives runs in bunches AND steals bases. 1st two years of his career as a starter, he leadoff and had 51 steals both years. ALSO, Ichiro is a leadoff hitter, they will not be pitching around him.

Ichiro is only a leadoff hitter only once a game. Every other inning is up in the air.


Sandra

 

[salsadancer7]

The Dodgers lineup in 2008, the one he left the vaunted Red Sox lineup for, hit a total of 137 home runs for the season, and was 13th out of 16 NL teams in home runs. And that's INCLUDING the 17 Manny hit in 53 games. Murderer's Row they weren't.

Yet Manny STILL hit better in LA that year than he did in Boston.



Ichiro is only a leadoff hitter only once a game. Every other inning is up in the air.


Sandra

But as a TEAM, they were ranked 6th in hits...5th in average and 5th in OBP. So THAT DID help Manny in producing runs.

 

[SandraC]

But as a TEAM, they were ranked 6th in hits...5th in average and 5th in OBP. So THAT DID help Manny in producing runs.

So you dismiss singles when you talk about Ichiro, but use them to support your point when talking about the Dodgers? OK


Sandra

 

[SandraC]

Barry Bonds in San Francisco. Adrian Gonzalez in San Diego.

Too quote Phil from Modern Family, "I can't NOT think of players who thrive without protection in the lineup"!


Sandra

 

[salsadancer7]

So you dismiss singles when you talk about Ichiro, but use them to support your point when talking about the Dodgers? OK


Sandra

where are you showing that I am dismissing singles....?

 

[SandraC]

where are you showing that I am dismissing singles....?

You seriously don't remember typing that about Ichiro?


Sandra

 

[Jimbo]

The Dodgers lineup in 2008, the one he left the vaunted Red Sox lineup for, hit a total of 137 home runs for the season, and was 13th out of 16 NL teams in home runs. And that's INCLUDING the 17 Manny hit in 53 games. Murderer's Row they weren't.

Yet Manny STILL hit better in LA that year than he did in Boston.



Ichiro is only a leadoff hitter only once a game. Every other inning is up in the air.


Sandra

Of course, he was motivated

In his prime, he was one of the top hitters around, another of the few that can make a difference, regardless of where he played.

 

[SandraC]

Of course, he was motivated

In his prime, he was one of the top hitters around, another of the few that can make a difference, regardless of where he played.

What's-his-name is telling us Hanley Ramirez is also one of the top hitters around.


Sandra