motor setup questions

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turbosat

SatelliteGuys Master
Original poster
Dec 26, 2006
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Oneonta,AL
My new DG380 motor arrived at noon today and I've been working on it mostly ever since lol. Couldn't rig anything for a 1m primestar to fit onto the motors shaft yet, so I settled for an 84E for now. Since I've never used one of these diseqc motors I was mostly fumbling. But for now, just a couple of questions...
1. The motor bracket has a little sticker, picture of a wrench with a red line thru it, meaning, I suppose , hand tighten only? Doesn't sound right to only hand tighten something holding the motor to the bracket....OR, does it just mean 'dont overtighten?'

2. I can track the arc from 74 to about 101 ok, seems to be getting both polarities on those sats, but doesn't seem to be able to see anything west of 101. Its not trees, so what should I adjust for that-the azimuth? It tracks so well on what it does see, I'm almost afraid to move anything,haha....

I just turned the mount on the 84e upside down and shimmed the tube, tightened the bolts on the 84's mount snug to the motor shaft and it seems tight. And I weighed the dish/mount first, to be sure, around 23 pounds. So I should be ok on the weight , far as the motor. I think its says 31lbs max.
3. Lastly, should I mess with trying to set up the motor on anything in a receiver tonite,or wait until I get it tracking completely right?

Your input appreciated !
 
Hey Lak Im at 86.4W so I could pick 87 or 85, settled on 85 and got good video on the color bars. But I wasn't tracking the arc then, so I bypassed the motor until I was more sure. then hooked it back up and started using the buttons on the motor to move east/west, that's how the booklet said to do it, to make sure it was on the arc.
This is a new setup here, was a fixed .90Primestar pointed to 129, Just took that dish off and put this motor/84E on the pole. My main motorized dish for the last 2yrs or so has been a 1m Primestar on a polar mount/actuator. But the crappy superjacks won't last very long before the break parts inside the tube-so I wanted to try one of these motors for awhile.
 
You, like me (88 west), are in between Sats.
It seems you are tracking about the same Ease / West from your Center.
Was the motor at Zero when you Locked 85?
If so, that would put you 1.6 degrees too far east.
I'd set that Sat up for USALS, have the receiver move the Dish, then twist the Motor Mount west until you Lock again. You may be able to just tighten the Motor Mount Bolts on the West side to get the signal.
Then try to determine if you are tracking High or Low on the ends of the Arc.
 
I was just chatting with Turbo, and shared this drawing with him.
Not sure who posted it to the forum, but it's a page from the STAB manual.
Shows which way to twist/adjust a motor, based on high/low right/left aiming of the dish.
 
I'll figure out tomorrow whats going on with it. I was on zero when I found the color bars on 85W, and while I was outside it seemed to track everything from AMC6 to 97 just fine. So I quit and put all the tools up for the night and came inside. Hooked that cable up to this Icon, and while it gets 97 great, I can't make it find anything else (may be another Viewsat motor controll wannabe lol). The merc 2 seems to be doing a better job, I just ran it to AMC3 and it hit it, though a little east of truly on 87. So Lak's right, as usual . ! Tomorrow I will fight with it like Alien vs Predator until I get it right.
 
1. The motor bracket has a little sticker, picture of a wrench with a red line thru it, meaning, I suppose , hand tighten only? Doesn't sound right to only hand tighten something holding the motor to the bracket....OR, does it just mean 'dont overtighten?'

Mine had that sticker on there also and like you I wondered the same thing. What I did was not tighten that one as tight as I did the others.


2. I can track the arc from 74 to about 101 ok, seems to be getting both polarities on those sats, but doesn't seem to be able to see anything west of 101. Its not trees, so what should I adjust for that-the azimuth? It tracks so well on what it does see, I'm almost afraid to move anything,haha....

Are you absolutely certain the mounting pole is plumb? All the way around? If it is off by a skosh...


So Lak's right, as usual . ! Tomorrow I will fight with it like Alien vs Predator until I get it right.

Thought I saw that in there and had to go back and reread it. You will get it, my friend. Patience


3. Lastly, should I mess with trying to set up the motor on anything in a receiver tonite,or wait until I get it tracking completely right?

I, myself, would wait.



 

Are you absolutely certain the mounting pole is plumb? All the way around? If it is off by a skosh...


yep, plumb is VERY important as I found out after watching my hair grey over a month or so recently when I would go out occasionally to try to figure out how to make my dish upgrade track the arc.

I first found my pole wasn't plumb (90cm dish light enough to keep the pole plumb, the 120cm upgrade was too heavy for the pole and bent it slightly out of plumb except for center arc). Once I got another pole and added support brackets, I got some more of the arc.

The final piece of the puzzle was setting up USALS as someone suggested to help me find my extreme sat. As I set up USALS, I punched in my lat/long and noticed I was using the wrong due south sat - for some reason I had AMC-15 stuck in my mind as due-south sat instead of Anik F1R. When I USALS moved my dish to extreme sat, I found myself 2 deg E of the desired sat, so that also confirmed my wrong choice of due south sat. I fixed the polar axis by getting my extreme sat visible, touched up the elevation at due south sat, and like magic the whole arc tracked beautifully!
 
Hitting your True South Sat, is just the starting point, unless you and that Sat are at the same exact Latitude.
Then do as Skysurfer did, pick a Sat to the East or West, drive the Dish there via USALS, Manually drive Dish to determine which way the error is, make correction, and return to South Sat via USALS and tweak, if necessary.
 
I was just chatting with Turbo, and shared this drawing with him.
Not sure who posted it to the forum, but it's a page from the STAB manual.
Shows which way to twist/adjust a motor, based on high/low right/left aiming of the dish.
Don't mean to dulicate things, but attached is a PDF of the entire STAB documentation. This copy (on page 10) is cleaner and better to read when printed on paper.
 

Attachments

1. The motor bracket has a little sticker, picture of a wrench with a red line thru it, meaning, I suppose , hand tighten only? Doesn't sound right to only hand tighten something holding the motor to the bracket....OR, does it just mean 'dont overtighten?'

It means do not over-tighten using a wrench.

2. I can track the arc from 74 to about 101 ok, seems to be getting both polarities on those sats, but doesn't seem to be able to see anything west of 101. Its not trees, so what should I adjust for that-the azimuth? It tracks so well on what it does see, I'm almost afraid to move anything,haha....

A small adjustment on your true south and dish elevation.

I just turned the mount on the 84e upside down and shimmed the tube, tightened the bolts on the 84's mount snug to the motor shaft and it seems tight. And I weighed the dish/mount first, to be sure, around 23 pounds. So I should be ok on the weight , far as the motor. I think its says 31lbs max.

Yes, you are well within the limit.
 
Thanks Sadoun, those "small adjustments to south and elevation" are wearing me out lol. But Im making progress, when I gave up tonite, I have a little diff swatch of the arc to view. I found that when I finally found 123, I had to lift up on dish to get a better signal, which means, I think, that I may not be rotating dish/motor to the west quite enough yet. If it won't rain tomorrow I should have it!
 
Do you have any provision for a declination adjustment, and if so is that dialed in correctly? As one gets farther off-center, a zero declination angle will start to hurt. I've got a DG-380 on a 1.2m GEOSatPro (with a declination adjustment) and it hits everything from around 40-148W. Trees stop me on the east.
 
If my opinion helps at all, I would like to present it here.

If you start with a perfectly plumb mast (and I am very critical on this) you will have resolved 90% of the problems that others have experienced.

This is a critical item as all your other angles depend upon it.

If the mast is not supported or anchored well, this will hinder the first step for maintaining the plumb of the mast. If you can grab the top of the mast and push it out of position (without being a linebacker) and it does not return back to its original position, then it won't stay there when you put a dish on it.

Next, attach the motor to the mast and ensure that the motor brackets (sides) are level when you have the U-bolt clamps fairly well tightened (but not excessively). Overtightening will deform the motor bracket and change the plumb angle.

If the motor tube isn't already set to precisely 0 degrees or the center reference point, hook up the receiver and drive it there. Best way is to just tell the receiver to GO TO REFERENCE.

Ensure that the motor tube is tight on the motor shaft. Any slop in the gear train will cause you significant problems down the line. If you need to, adjust the internal gear backlash as suggested and outlined in the manual for your motor.

Determine TRUE south for your location and aim the motor tube so that it faces or points as close to that direction as you can possibly judge. Use a compass or a GPS if you need to. I use other methods, personally. I like to use Google Earth and set the image so that true north is always UP and then overlay a crosshair image with the center point at the proposed installation site of the dish antenna.

I print this out and then use a protracter to mark lines indicating true south and any of the strong satellites for my area.

Then I draw lines outward from the center to meet these marks and label them. I laminate this picture and take it out to the site with me and then I have a birds eye view of all the lanscape features (houses, barns, trees, hills, water towers etc) to use for reference points.

I aim the motor tube for the best possible true south angle that I can.

I set the motor latitude angle to the latitude angle of the site and lock it in and never move it afterwards.

I attach the dish bracket to the motor tube and set the Dish elevation angle to the specified degree for my lat/long position. This can be a little vague on some dishes as they are not marked with great resolution. Some are, some are not. I just trust them to be reasonably accurate and make a personal judgement here.

Next step, I determine the nearest true south satellite that has a most consistent and strong signal broadcast. I don't care if it is ITC (In The Clear) or encrypted, it doesn't matter, I am only looking for the carrier signal for alignment purposes. Often, the Internet or DATA feed channels are strongest, always active and can get you in the ball park much more quickly.

I am near Omaha, NE so my nearest true south satellite is 97.0W.

I did some research and found that TP 11.788 V SR 28.126 is strong for my location. So I go to the MANUAL SCAN or the MOTOR SETUP MENU and select sat 97.0W and select TP 11.788 V.

When I select this satellite, 97W, my motor moves just a tick. I am only offset a few tenths of a degree so it does not have to move very far.

Then, on a Coolsat 5000, I monitor the signal level and quality on a portable (small) TV directly at the dish installation site with the shortest RG6 jumper cables that I can use and without any switches in the circuit.

I pan the motor on the mast (moving the motor where it attaches to the mast mechanically) east and west of what I think is my true south. I move it very slowly and gently and only a degree or two at a time. Move it and pause and wait to see what the receiver picks up. Give the reciever a bit of time to acknowledge the signal if there may be a signal there. Some receivers may be slower than others to "lock on". So you need to allow the recveiver some time here. Move again and pause. Move again and pause. Etc.

Since I am usually quite certain of my true south positioning, I don't move the motor azimuth much more than five degrees in either direction, sometimes maybe eight to ten degrees just because (if the weather is nice and I have time to play).

If I do not detect a signal, I adjust the dish elevation. I pick an angle 5 degrees lower than what the angle calculator has told me to use. Then I pan the azimuth again. If I get no signal, I reset the dish elevation to five degrees above what the angle calculator informed me and pan the azimuth of the motor once again.

If I still do not catch a glimpse of the signal that I am looking for, I then drop the elevation by one degree increments and pan the azimuth again. I have rarely had to do anything this dramatic. Usually the first dish elevation setting is pretty close and I detect a signal right off.

I continue this process until I find any signal at all. When I find a signal, I peak on it and scan it to see what I am really dialed into. If it is incorrect (may have channels coming in, but they are not from the sat 97W that I was looking for) I then at least know where to go from there. If I need to go east or west, now I know. I at least have a reference point.

Then, I move the dish in the proper direction to pick up my desired satellite (97W) and when I find it, I fine tune on it. Then I scan whichever TP I am on so that the receiver logs in the channels and the position of the satellite.

Then I select USALS and any other satellite that I know to have a consistent, strong transmission and go there to check. Preferrably a Vertical polarity TP on a sat more than 5 degrees east or west of 97W. The further I can go and still pick up a signal on the first try, the better.

At this other sat, I adjust the motor azimuth to peak the signal.

Then, I return to 97W and adjust the dish elevation to repeak the signal. Then I move back to the other sat or a sat further in that direction and peak the signal with the motor azimuth. Back and forth until I cannot peak the signal any further. Then I go to the opposite side of the horizon and check sats there.

The very first time I set up a motorized dish, I either got lucky or I had researched the procedure well enough ahead of time to understand what I should be looking for. Now, I am still searching for new "toys" and new sats! But. I think I have the gist of it.

Getting the entire arc tracked properly was another chore. I was new to setting up a motor at that time. I am still trying to perfect my satellite system, but I don't know if I ever will. It seems to be a continual hobby with no end, eveytime you think you have the dish aligned the best, or the motor, then someone comes out with a new satellite or a new motor or a new dish or a new LNBF or a new receiver that you just have to test!

Getting everything perfect and up to my own expectations is quite another matter. That is why this is a continual hobby!

It is just like my other hobby, fishing. You are constantly seeking better bait or lures, better fishing holes, a better boat and a better fishing rod and more tackle! :)

AcWxRADAR
 
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Thanks for all the explanations and helpful posts!! I figured it out last night by re-reading the instructions with the motor. Even though I KNEW from reading other's stories, I misread the instructions on setting the motor elevation angle anyway lol. My motor elevation is 5degrees lower than it should be, so that explains this mystery. It would never have worked that way!
When the rain stops this morning I will go back out there and set it correctly.
the details about setting the DISH elevation bracket was where I was goofing it up.
 
Acwxradar, great writeup!
I think a lot of times people mix up the declination angle (dish bracket) and the latitude (motor bracket) angles... Also you need a really good solid post to mount the motor/dish combo on so it doesn't move when the dish is pointing different directions. I lucked out on my first motor installation and the SG2100 has worked flawlessly ever since. I did have to re-aim it once after a bad windstorm, twisted the motor around a bit on the mast, just had to loosen the clamps a bit and move it back until the sat I was aiming at came in again.
Turbosat, You'll enjoy having the motor and not know how you went without it for so long!
-C.
 
Cham I had a motor but it was an actuator type on a polar mount. Well, the nasty weather isn't gonna let me work on it today, 30-40mph winds and tornado threats, tree limbs flying. Wind flipped my little 5' cband that sits on its round ring on the ground, bent the hell out of it. It may still be usable a little but no big deal. Just hate to see it damaged, since I've had it about 20yrs.
Didnt get the word we would be having the hurricane winds today.....
 
Cham I had a motor but it was an actuator type on a polar mount. Well, the nasty weather isn't gonna let me work on it today, 30-40mph winds and tornado threats, tree limbs flying. Wind flipped my little 5' cband that sits on its round ring on the ground, bent the hell out of it. It may still be usable a little but no big deal. Just hate to see it damaged, since I've had it about 20yrs.
Didnt get the word we would be having the hurricane winds today.....

Turbosat,

30-40 mph winds are just a breezy day here! I get worried when it gets 60+ mph, that is when I know that I will have to do clean up work for a couple weeks.

I certainly hope you do not experience a tornado! I will hope and pray that your area is not hit by one.

RADAR
 
Ouch!
bad storm for sure. Saw something on the weather late last night about storms down south guess you got one. Still melting snow here and still flooding. Bad stuff everywhere these days it would seem... At least we have a good hobby!
Take care,
C.
 
Thanks for the kind words, we dodged a major bullet this afternoon, close storm knocked out the electric at 515p, didnt get back on until 945 tonite (they had said it might be midnight). Just glad to be here!
 
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