Retrofit My Radioshack Dish Onto My KTI Mount

[JFOK]

FTA4PA,

Thanks for the words of encouragement.
I wasn't able to find any satellites today after finishing some last minute dish prep which yes... included setting the azimuth and declination.
Still not totally pleased with my declination as I just cant get it right to 48.5 where it should be in my neck of the woods.
I'm pretty much bottomed out at about 45 degrees with the declination screw... see pic above. Will fiddle with the dish again tomorrow,
Gotta tell you it was so much easier 28 years ago when I first put up this RS dish. I was younger and there was still analog which was more forgiving and easier to find.

John

 

[primestar31]

Get a Coupling Nut large enough to screw onto the present Declination bolt, and screw a piece of "All-Thread" into the other end. You can use some jam nuts on each side to make sure it doesn't unscrew/stays tight. That should extend it far enough to get your setting in.

Coupling Nuts - Nuts - The Home Depot

 

[JFOK]

Mike,

Good idea never thought of that.
However, I think I might first attach my angle finder to the center of the dish to make sure I'm not getting a false reading from the back of the mount.

John

 

[primestar31]

Good point, as that's exactly why I mentioned using a long 2x4 across the face. Of course it also has to be the straightest one you can find. MANY polar mounts are deceiving just where to put the digital level for some settings, and who knows with your mating a different dish to the mount that it normally uses.

Never hurts to have an additional check.

 

[JFOK]

Hi All,

Totally baffled why I have to raise my dish to get to the proper declination coordinates to reach my southern satellite that I'm shooting for...87W. I thought declination settings lowered the dish by predetermined settings according to one's location, after setting the elevation.
For my location to get 87W, the elevation settings should be 38.9. That much I can get, but my declination shows at it very best 40 and as I told Mike last night, I'm out of declination screw. I should have plenty if I'm lowering, but to get the the proper declination reading I have to raise the dish until I'm out of travel for the declination screw. Before I take Mikes suggestion to extend the declination screw, can anyone figure out what I might have done wrong to end up with this strange situation ?
Thanks in advance for any suggestions.

John

 

[. Raine]

John, are you trying to set declination according to the mount (as if it was all original without the RS dish on it) or going by what the RS dish manual says declination should be?

I mounted my 12' Conifer on a different mount and I used the specs for the mount, that worked for me in that case.

 

[JFOK]

Hi Andy,

Thanks for the response.
I'm setting the declination according to this chart for my area (42.65 + 5.85 = 48.5 total declination) and using the spec for the KTI mount. I may have to take another look at the RS manual.
This so frustrating. I've spent a day and a half trying to figure this out.
I might have to take Mike's suggestion and add more declination rod length.

John

 

[a33]

Most likely you are using inclination and declination wrongly together, so using values with horizontal = 0 degree mixed with values where vertical = 0 degrees?

For LAT=42: modified LAT is 42,65, so axis elevation (0=vertical!) = 47.35 towards the vertical.
modified declination offset = 5.85
Total dish elevation = 47.35-5.85 = 41.50 towards the vertical (= your 48.50 towards the horizontal)

Is this of help?
(I always remember/visualize the systematics by ELEVATION angle, as you can see here. Otherwise I get confused myself. )

Greetz,
A33

 

[JFOK]

Hi A33,

Thanks for responding.
I'm not sure I understand your directions.
Are you saying raise my elevation from its present setting of 42.65 to 47.35 then subtract 5.85 at the dish to get the declination ?

John

 

[a33]

Well, let's check if my assumption was right.

1. What angle is your axis now: 42.65 or 47.35?

2. When you move the inclinometer to more vertical, is the value of degrees increasing or decreasing?
(Decreasing would show the inclinometer shows the elevation angle, increasing would show you're using the "latitude" value.)

Greetz,
A33

 

[JFOK]

A33,

My angle is now 42.65.
The declination angle increases as I move the dish up trying to reach 48.5, but I run out of the declination rod thread at 40 degrees.

John

 

[a33]

My angle is now 42.65.
The declination angle increases as I move the dish up trying to reach 48.5, but I run out of the declination rod thread at 40 degrees.

OK, axis at 42.65 degrees.
The second sentence is not exactly the answer to what I asked, but I think we'll get there anyway:

With "as I move the dish up trying to reach 48.5 (on the inclinometer)" do you mean the dish is becoming more horizontal?

If the answer to this is YES, then your inclimometer is now measuring elevation angles.
In that case: use the elevation values of my earlier post!
So axis elevation (0=vertical!) = 47.35 degrees
Total dish elevation = 47.35-5.85 = 41.50 towards the vertical.

To check the inclinometer, after setting the dish at the required angle, move the inclinometer more vertical. The angle value at the inclinometer should become LESS.

Does this help?

A33

 

[primestar31]

You know, you could avoid all this by doing what I mentioned above. Since the polar mount is now mated to a different dish, you have some "unknowns" involved (is the dish really square with the mount?). If not, my method will correct for that.

So, find or buy that long straight 2x4, place it across the dish face top to bottom, run the mount to it's highest point and measure the TOTAL (combined Declination + Elevation) angle (48.5 degrees) of the FACE of the dish on the center of that 2x4, when pointed at TRUE SOUTH (which as I said, is NOT necessarily your true south SATELLITE). It's pretty rare for a persons location to be exactly at the point of a persons true south satellite compared to actual true south. It's typically off a couple degrees from the actual satellite, so if that's also true for you, you are confusing yourself and will never get it set right.

 

[JFOK]

A33 and Mike,

Let me make sure I got this straight...you are suggesting that after raising the dish to its highest point in the arc, at true south, to elevate it to either 47.5 or 48.5 (combined elevation and declination), correct ? After doing this, the declination would be correct, or would there be a further declination adjustment needed ? Sorry if I seem a little "dense" here, but I want to be sure I totally understand this procedure.
One of the things I checked was if the RS dish hub was square with the KTI mount, and it is.
I appreciate the suggestions from both of you...its much appreciated.

Thanks,

John

 

[a33]

Well, what I'm trying to say is:
You live in an area where elevation angle is about the same as (90 minus elevation angle), so the values read on the inclinometer might be confusing as to where is the 0, and where is the 90 degrees, as all these angles are between 40 and 50 degrees.

So that you have to check which angle in fact you are measuring, by checking how the inclinometer value changes, when you rotate it more vertical: Are you using the scale as vertical = 0, or as vertical = 90?

First set axis elevation angle right.
Then dish declination offset, by measuring total dish elevation. And of course, you always measure the latter at the dish face (top to bottom).

A33

 

[primestar31]

A33 and Mike,

Let me make sure I got this straight...you are suggesting that after raising the dish to its highest point in the arc, at true south, to elevate it to either 47.5 or 48.5 (combined elevation and declination), correct ? After doing this, the declination would be correct, or would there be a further declination adjustment needed ? Sorry if I seem a little "dense" here, but I want to be sure I totally understand this procedure.
One of the things I checked was if the RS dish hub was square with the KTI mount, and it is.
I appreciate the suggestions from both of you...its much appreciated.

Thanks,

John

A33 is correct, and we are basically saying the same thing, only laying it out slightly different. Once your Elevation bolt is set correctly, you can make SURE Declination is proper by using the 2x4 method. Once the FACE of the dish (while mount is True South AND at it's highest point) is at 48.5, you are set where you should be. You then NEVER touch the Declination bolt again.

THEN you can move the dish to an actual satellite closest to your True South with a channel you can scan in. Do a blind scan and tune something in. After that, you might possibly have to slightly adjust ONLY the ELEVATION bolt a little bit, and/or twist the whole mount slightly East or West to peak the signal. Once that's done, you then check all the way West to that furthest sat for signal level, and get back to us for further info if needed to peak that. I don't want to confuse you more just yet.

 

[JFOK]

A33 and Mike,

Thanks so much for the informative info. I really appreciate it.
The one thing I need to make clear is, setting the elevation at 48.9 at the mount then double checking at the face of the dish with a 2x4 will assure that I have the proper declination automatically ? Or will I have to then make a declination adjustment ?

John

 

[Magic Static]

Well I hate to bring up some bad news but you may need to back up a couple steps. The thread reads like the button hook is not centered. Did you measure it? Do you have cables holding it in place?

 

[JFOK]

Magic,

I checked the button hook when assembling the dish and after assembly and it is centered.
Thanks for that heads up though.

John

 

[primestar31]

A33 and Mike,

Thanks so much for the informative info. I really appreciate it.
The one thing I need to make clear is, setting the elevation at 48.9 at the mount then double checking at the face of the dish with a 2x4 will assure that I have the proper declination automatically ? Or will I have to then make a declination adjustment ?

John

Where are you getting 48.9? Look at my post #74 again. Your ELEVATION bolt should be set for 42.65 degrees. Then the Declination bolt would be set for 5.85 degrees, and when that happens, the face will measure 48.5 degrees total.

42.65 (elevation) + 5.85 (declination) = 48.5 degrees total. (meaning what the "face" of the dish should be at).

Since you are unsure of what's going on with the Declination bolt, just set your Elevation bolt for the 42.65 degrees elevation. Put your Declination bolt wherever is handy to check the face degrees, it doesn't matter where just yet since it's an unknown with this dish & mount combo. Then measure the degrees on the face of the dish (while at top dead center, and pointed to True South).

IF it isn't 48.5, then adjust the Declination bolt whichever way you must to get the face to 48.5 degrees. DON'T TOUCH THE ELEVATION BOLT TO COMPENSATE ON THIS! IF you can't adjust it quite to that point of 48.5 with only the Declination bolt, then you know you have to extend the Declination bolt in whatever way is easiest and best for you to do so to get to 48.5.