SG 2100 Issues

[DJ Rob]

I bought a SG2100 motor this week and installed it on my Winegard 2076 30" dish. My receiver is a Traxis 3500.

I made sure the mast was level and set the angles according to the manual that came with the motor. I'm near Denver so it is 50 degrees for the elevation and 30-6.3=23.7 for the declination. I pointed it due south.

I did a full reset of the receiver since I bought it used to make sure all of the settings were default. I then entered my longitude and latitude and used USALS on the receiver to locate my closest southern satellite - 105. I tweaked the bracket that attaches the motor to the mast so that the signal was the strongest. I then adjusted the dish declination to also get the strongest signal. I thought I was done.

I went inside and noticed that as I go east or west of my most southern sat, the dish was going too far to get to that sat. 123 was coming in strongest when I set it to go to 121.5. because at 123, it was really aiming at 124.5. And 72 was coming in at 74 because it was really pointed at 70. I played around with the elevation and declination settings even going 5-10 degrees off what the manual said. I got the same results, the motor would go too far in each direction. But yet it would track the arc perfectly. I attached my signal finder and verified that the dish is tracking the arc perfectly from 72 - 129. It was dead on.

So I ended up playing with the settings on the receiver for my lattitude and longitude. I figured the farther north you go, the less the dish has to move east to west to get the satellites. I tried increasing the latitude until it moved to all of the satellites with a signal of 70 or better. I had to change it from 40N to 84N.

It seems to work okay now but my question is why is this happening? Did I get a bad motor? It is a DMSI model. I didn't think it is bad since it does move.

Or is there an issue with the Traxis 3500? It says it has 1086b-3500 firmware.

 

[Fizbi]

I went inside and noticed that as I go east or west of my most southern sat, the dish was not going as far as it needed to to get to that sat. 123 was coming in strongest when I set it to go to 121.5. And 72 was coming in at 74...

Looks like a problem I had when I first got started.

It may be that you have a good arc but it is about 2 degrees off.
Try slipping your motor mount 2 degrees as your dish arc may be a tad off the true arc where all the birds are.

Another problem I had was a warped dish. When I corrected these two problems, I was able to track all the SATs.

Also, see this graphic troubleshooting guide (below). It may help.

 

[DJ Rob]

I will go try to slip the mount. Do you mean on the motor?

I have gone up and down 5-10 degrees on the elevation and declination settings. It still does the same thing...

 

[Lak7]

I'm near Denver so it is 50 degrees for the elevation

From Sadoun's Setup Page for Denver.....
Motor Latitude: 39.8° Use the Moror's Latitude gauge not Elevation gauge
Dish Elevation: 24° Or best Signal, Dish gauges are know to be Off a few Deg
Azimuth (mag.): 170.7° using Compass
True South Sat is AMC15 @ 105west

 

[DJ Rob]

When the elevation gauge is set to 50, it was at about 39 on the latitude gauge.

Here's what I did today to try to fix it.

1) I went ahead and tried setting it to as close to 39.8 as I could. It still passes the sats on either side of the far arc. I would say it starts happening where I do not get a lock about 10-12 degrees from center.

2) I reset motor at 0 degrees.

3) Tried setting the motor bracket lower to 30 on the latitude gauge. It still passes the sats on either side of the far arc.

3) Tried setting the motor bracket higher to 50 on the latitude gauge. It still passes the sats on either side of the far arc.

4) Unboxed and setup a brand new Winegard 30" dish my neighbor got for Bell and never used. Tried all of the above latitude settings on the motor bracket... the dish still passes the sats on either side of 10-12 degrees of center.

5) Changed my latitude from 40N to 84N on the receiver with the new dish and it seems to lock all sats like it did before.

What do I do now? Could it be a motor or a receiver problem?

 

[ng54]

Same problem here also, DMSI digipower sg2100. I have had mulptiple problems with
both the hardware and the circuit board inside. (2 months old)

I found a thread that says there is a bunch of motors with bad magnets. Its a round
magnet on the end of the motor shaft that triggers a hal effect sensor that counts
revolutions of the motor to keep track of position.
These magnets are bad from the manufacturer, no way to fix other than return it to
the company who sold it. I have been living with my motor as it repeats ok.
DMSI techs are not aware of this failure.

 

[B.J.]

I bought a SG2100 motor this week and installed it on my Winegard 2076 30" dish. My receiver is a Traxis 3500.

I made sure the mast was level and set the angles according to the manual that came with the motor. I'm near Denver so it is 50 degrees for the elevation and 30-6.3=23.7 for the declination. I pointed it due south.

I did a full reset of the receiver since I bought it used to make sure all of the settings were default. I then entered my longitude and latitude and used USALS on the receiver to locate my closest southern satellite - 105. I tweaked the bracket that attaches the motor to the mast so that the signal was the strongest. I then adjusted the dish declination to also get the strongest signal. I thought I was done.

I went inside and noticed that as I go east or west of my most southern sat, the dish was going too far to get to that sat. 123 was coming in strongest when I set it to go to 121.5. because at 123, it was really aiming at 124.5. And 72 was coming in at 74 because it was really pointed at 70. I played around with the elevation and declination settings even going 5-10 degrees off what the manual said. I got the same results, the motor would go too far in each direction. But yet it would track the arc perfectly. I attached my signal finder and verified that the dish is tracking the arc perfectly from 72 - 129. It was dead on.

So I ended up playing with the settings on the receiver for my lattitude and longitude. I figured the farther north you go, the less the dish has to move east to west to get the satellites. I tried increasing the latitude until it moved to all of the satellites with a signal of 70 or better. I had to change it from 40N to 84N.

It seems to work okay now but my question is why is this happening? Did I get a bad motor? It is a DMSI model. I didn't think it is bad since it does move.

Or is there an issue with the Traxis 3500? It says it has 1086b-3500 firmware.

First of all, I would recommend first sending the motor back to it's zero reference, then go out and check to see if it is in fact on zero. If not, manually move it to zero via the buttons on the motor, then do a hard reset, again via the buttons on the motor. My SG2100 was off by about 2 degrees out of the box, but the above will set it right.

Secondly, I'd recommend for your latitude, to set the latitude scale to about 0.6 deg more than your latitude (elevation scale 0.6 less than 90-lat), then leave that alone. Use a declination of about 5.6 instead of the incorrect 6.3 given by the sadoun web page. Tune in your south sat adjusting only the dish elevation, instead of tweaking the motor elevation as you did.

I think if you do that, then you should be much closer.

 

[DJ Rob]

Bummer NG54. I wish I didn't waste all of this time to see that I was setting it up correctly. I'm noticing now that the motor is not stopping in the same spots when I go to a satellite from east or west of it now. So it looks like it is what you are saying about the magnet that tracks the position being bad since it is not stopping in the same spots for each satellite.

I will be calling DMSI on Monday for a replacement and pointing them to this thread.

 

[Lak7]

Search this site for Backlash , see if you have that problem.

 

[DJ Rob]

First of all, I would recommend first sending the motor back to it's zero reference, then go out and check to see if it is in fact on zero. If not, manually move it to zero via the buttons on the motor, then do a hard reset, again via the buttons on the motor. My SG2100 was off by about 2 degrees out of the box, but the above will set it right.

Secondly, I'd recommend for your latitude, to set the latitude scale to about 0.6 deg more than your latitude (elevation scale 0.6 less than 90-lat), then leave that alone. Use a declination of about 5.6 instead of the incorrect 6.3 given by the sadoun web page. Tune in your south sat adjusting only the dish elevation, instead of tweaking the motor elevation as you did.

I think if you do that, then you should be much closer.

I reset it at zero. I used the buttons and reset it at the 0 position. Then pushed the pinhole reset button.

I just went out and tried what you said about the 5.6. It still tracks incorrectly.

I tried pretty much every latitude on the motor bracket between 30 and 50. I started going up and down a half of a degree and went both ways. No matter what I set the bracket on the motor to and then tweaked my dish azimuth and motor bracket to my south sat with a signal meter, it is tracking too far at any sats 10-12 degrees east or west of my south satellite.

 

[DJ Rob]

I don't think it is a backlash issue.

It looks like Satcom1 had the same issue I do
http://www.satelliteguys.us/free-air-fta-discussion/139661-sg2100-overrun-usals.html

 

[BarneyBean]

I have the same problem also but I use a viewsat and instead of USALS I set it on user setting and saved each sat that way, no problems since

 

[gillham]

Interesting thread!

I recently picked up a SG2100 and noticed it would go past the birds to the East by about 2° or so. I had the same experience of seeing good quality on the TP as the motor sailed past. My STABS HH100 is dead on so I have been assuming I have something hosed with my SG2100 setup, but this thread makes me rethink that.

My mast is plumb and is 1.25" galvanized steel pipe so the weight of dish + motor doesn't seem to affect it. My dish is through-bolted to the motor shaft so I don't think it can be misaligned. LNBF arm seems correct, the dish elevation and motor latitude are good. Satellites to the West are ok, I believe. (I'm at 121°W) I've manually tracked the arc with the East/West button and I'm fairly sure I'm getting decent signal on all satellites I would expect to see, but it has been about two weeks since I messed with it.

So I think either my motor isn't actually zeroed or it could be suffering from this sensor defect.

When I get a chance to experiment with the SG2100 some more I'll try zeroing / resetting it and try it without USALS. I thought it was zeroed ok, but now I want to double-check everything again. Especially after that excellent image showing the various arc tracking issues.

If the motor can get back precisely when using DiSEqC 1.2 motor positions, wouldn't that mean the sensor is working ok and it is more of a USALS issue?

 

[DJ Rob]

I hope others will find this thread if they are having the same issue. As I said before, I'll be calling DMSI and letting them know about all of us with this problem and see what can be done to fix it.

 

[Fizbi]

I will go try to slip the mount. Do you mean on the motor?

I have gone up and down 5-10 degrees on the elevation and declination settings. It still does the same thing...

Yes, the motor mount hardware. Loosen it up and slip the motor 2 degrees (east/west rotation).

I have been reading all the posts on this problem and it is still not clear if you have a motor positioning problem or not.

Troubleshooting a problem like this can take some time as there are many variables working against you.

If you reset the zero position, I would try some more tests.

1. Run it 45 degrees off zero, then back to zero. Does it return to zero or does it over run? Is this repeatable? If it can't find zero after running it from the east or west, then I'd return the motor.

2. If you can find one SAT and manually program that position (not using USALS), then run it east and west, then back to that one SAT position. If it can't locate that one SAT, then I'd agree you have a motor problem and need to exchange the motor.

 

[DJ Rob]

I moved it 2 degrees and now it does not find any satellites. Doesn't zero need to be aimed to my exact south?

1. It does not overrun zero. It only starts doing it 10-12 degrees either east or west of zero. The farther from zero, the move overrun.

2. It will program via diseqc 1.2 and returns to the place it was programmed to within about a half of a degree.

Since it does go back to the place it is programmed to with diseqc 1.2, I take it this motor is not USALS compatable? Any suggestions on a USALS motor that works with a Winegard 30"?

 

[B.J.]

Since it does go back to the place it is programmed to with diseqc 1.2, I take it this motor is not USALS compatable? Any suggestions on a USALS motor that works with a Winegard 30"?

The SG2100 is definitely USALS compatable.

 

[ng54]

DJ Rob

What you are seeing is correct. In this new motor zero position cannot be lost like the
older sg2100s. They have mounted the zero position sensor in the center of the big gear.
On the movement problem, when you manually move the dish in diseqc mode the controller
pcb records the number of motor revolutions from zero. In USALS mode the goto X is used
IE: 123.0 the controller pcb calculates how many motor revolutions it takes to get there.
This is were the problem lies, weak magnet > hal effect sensor misses motor revolutions
and you have the dish traveling too far both east and west. The closer you are to zero
the less position error you will have and the east/west limits will have the maximum position
error. Diseqc will work fine, but Usals won't. Hope this helps, kinda wordy..

 

[DJ Rob]

Today I called the place I bought the motor. I figured I would contact them first before I called DMSI.

They said they just started carrying this model of motor and have had a few other customers with the exact same problem. It's strange that this is the SG 2100 model with one button... so it looks like DMSI switched back from the two button one.

The retailer has contacted DMSI and are waiting to hear back. They said I would probably get a call back later today.

 

[DJ Rob]

The retailer (AEONSAT.com) who has been great, said that DMSI wants me to RMA the motor back to them. I have pointed both the aeonsat and DMSI to this thread on the online RMA form. Hopefully we can help them identify and fix the issues with USALS on the SG-2100.