Perhaps 40,000,000+ dishes shipped in China last year. The number is that low since they mostly aren't legal (yet):
http://www.pcworld.com/article/194755/article.html
X2 premium
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http://www.pcworld.com/article/194755/article.html
I have an X2 receiver and it works real good for me. It moves both my dishes and does whatever I need it to do with no problems, but, as Corrado mentioned earlier in this thread, all of their firmware has hack crap in it. I have no idea about their legal status with Dolby licensing and the rest, but their firmware says a lot and I wouldn't be at all surprised if their licensing for Dolby and such was bogus.
To blatantly ship and update receivers with firmware like that, there can be no doubt as to who the main clientele is that they want to cater to. As I've mentioned before in another thread, I'm planning on replacing my X2 receiver. Not because of the X2's performance, but because of the crap in all the firmware updates for it and what it represents. Even though I don't use the stuff in the firmware that shouldn't be in there, it annoys the hell out of me that it is there and can't be removed, enough so that my X2's being replaced soon.
Might be silly, but it really does just rub me the wrong way.
To blatantly ship and update receivers with firmware like that, there can be no doubt as to who the main clientele is that they want to cater to. As I've mentioned before in another thread, I'm planning on replacing my X2 receiver. Not because of the X2's performance, but because of the crap in all the firmware updates for it and what it represents. Even though I don't use the stuff in the firmware that shouldn't be in there, it annoys the hell out of me that it is there and can't be removed, enough so that my X2's being replaced soon.
Might be silly, but it really does just rub me the wrong way.
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Brian, I am curious about how much the licenses and certifications would cost. Can you give a rough estimate of cost per unit? I would imagine some costs (for example UL certification) may be a set amount, not dependent of the number of units produced, whereas other costs may be per unit, but a rough estimate would be interesting.
ETL certification is a onetime per model cost of approximately $2500. Usually the UL certification is not used for OEM as the annual manufacturing compliance inspection cost is quite high.
Dolby has a registration and per unit fee. The fee is based on annual quantity. An example would be $5000 registration and $1 per unit. A Dolby enabled chipset is also licensed and usually costs $2+ per unit.
USB is $5000 annual with two year minimum. If under 10k production a license may be issued under the manufacture's license.
FCC and Industry Canada model compliance and registration is usually less than $2000
Mexico requires NOM certification on quantity imports which is approximately $2000 per model.
Dolby has a registration and per unit fee. The fee is based on annual quantity. An example would be $5000 registration and $1 per unit. A Dolby enabled chipset is also licensed and usually costs $2+ per unit.
USB is $5000 annual with two year minimum. If under 10k production a license may be issued under the manufacture's license.
FCC and Industry Canada model compliance and registration is usually less than $2000
Mexico requires NOM certification on quantity imports which is approximately $2000 per model.
Brian, thanks for the information. Very informative about certification and licensing costs required.
Wasn't the firmware for the X2 remade for US-only? Or at least for awhile. Had a US-satellite list preloaded too.Firmware in mine is dated sept24, and I can't see anything about hacking or loading keys or anything in it, That was the firmware that seemed to make mine scan and operate the best, so I quit updating it after that. And mine's not connected to the internet so it can't update itself.
there is a new firmware out, i am messing with it now .
old problems are that it doesnt play well with switches in series.
we will see if it was fixed. Also the lnb settings on the old firmware worked for stacked lnb, but it didnt scan them right.
so that is also something worth looking at.
old problems are that it doesnt play well with switches in series.
we will see if it was fixed. Also the lnb settings on the old firmware worked for stacked lnb, but it didnt scan them right.
so that is also something worth looking at.
For quite a while they didn't put that stuff in the firmware and then all of a sudden it was in every one. I don't remember the problems I had with the older firmwares that made me upgrade, other than the clock, which I could live with. Might've been with switches in series, as Kodaz mentioned.
Kodaz, does the new firmware you're messing with now have that stuff in it?
switch info is in there, dunno if it works yet. i know that 1- 8by works, but i have yet to hook the rest in.
i didnt check sat list , i didnt think of it. i saved my settings and put them in as soon as i upgraded.
i didnt check sat list , i didnt think of it. i saved my settings and put them in as soon as i upgraded.
It does, but's hidden by default, at least since their November release. One would have have to enable that stuff explicitly, in order to use it. Aside from feeling guilty for buying a shady box, it's a great bang for the buck for ppl on the budget wanting to enjoy HD FTA. Amazon now links directly to discover card cash back bonus, so my total bill ended up even lower than $55
CheersI have to say, their customer support is very responsive.
It does, but's hidden by default, at least since their November release. One would have have to enable that stuff explicitly, in order to use it. Aside from feeling guilty for buying a shady box, it's a great bang for the buck for ppl on the budget wanting to enjoy HD FTA. Amazon now links directly to discover card cash back bonus, so my total bill ended up even lower than $55
I have to say, their customer support is very responsive.
I have to agree that it is a good receiver, it has been a great receiver for me as far as performance.
As to the firmware, I most definitely never enabled that stuff and it most definitely was never hidden in my receiver, whenever I upgraded the firmware. So, in the latest firmware, it's hidden? I haven't bothered trying to update for a while, I tried about four times after a new firmware actually worked for me and they all had that crap and I gave up. Maybe I'll try again.
I don't feel guilty at all about buying the X2, but if anything like that say, shipped with a new computer that I bought, I'd remove it and I'd be very pissed off if I couldn't. I'm simply not a thief and don't condone things like that shoved at me, especially so blatantly.
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I agree.. maybe that may be why they decided to hide those menus by default. I received my unit in December, which had November's firmware. It didn't have all that stuff exposed.. You can try updating to the latest (Dec 2013) firmware. I don't know if it's possible to simply enter the same (or different?) code from the remote, to get rid of those menu options. They may work like a toggle switch, or maybe not (once enabled, always enabled), until you flash to new firmware.. i didn't try to play with those options, was afraid to brick it
it's pretty buggy, even in the latest release, but the basic fta functionality/simple set up (me) works well.
I agree.. maybe that may be why they decided to hide those menus by default. I received my unit in December, which had November's firmware. It didn't have all that stuff exposed.. You can try updating to the latest (Dec 2013) firmware. I don't know if it's possible to simply enter the same (or different?) code from the remote, to get rid of those menu options. They may work like a toggle switch, or maybe not (once enabled, always enabled), until you flash to new firmware.. i didn't try to play with those options, was afraid to brick it
Hmmm, I will try the latest firmware and see if that gets rid of it. I think the code for updating I used was 0000, didn't know of any others. I will check into that, thanks. The X2 actually works real well for me, I have a C, a Ku dish with motor, a V-box and two switches hooked up to it and it doesn't give me any problems. Really the only gripe I have with it is the firmware.
I've had mine for probably a year now, the first four, five? or so firmwares were horrible with the switches and motor control, I think, so I had to upgrade the firmware quite a few times and every upgrade had the unwanted stuff, plus more I tried after. The later firmwares did fix all the motor and switch problems for me. I'll try the latest firmware and see what I get with that. I do still have the original crappy firmware that didn't work right backed up, maybe I'll try loading that and then the newest one.
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Hey Brian/Titanium I think you missed the HDMI licensing X2 for sure does not have along with MPEG-LA licensing fees. I don’t know about the MPEG-LA but since I do know for a fact that they never paid Dolby, USB or had FCC testing done I’d just assume MPEG-LA got nothing.
I know for a fact that they fraudulently stole and used Satellite AV’s DOC’s. I know they stole code to fix the few things that they fixed. I know for a fact that they have twice attempted to secure our NA Amiko’s to do the same thing.
And yes it most definitely comes in one configuration only…setup for IKS and theft of Dish Network subscription programming. And yes I have an email in my possession where X2 was more than happy to offer a dealer help in setting up IKS to steal Dish Network.
The guys supporting these products have never had an original idea they didn’t steal from someone else.
But who cares, you can get a pathetically assembled $17 china unit for only $54! You aren’t going to personally use it for stealing Dish Network so it is ok that everything in it is stolen.
I’ve had my eye on a nice $600 9mm and a $500 HDTV. I can get the same items “off the truck” for only $100 each. I only intend to target shoot and watch OTA/terrestrial. Therefore it doesn’t matter that someone’s house was broken into, stolen from or anything else that might have happened along the way, as long as I get me a good 9mm and TV for dirt cheap.
You guys with this attitude are NOT True FTA people. You are no better than the IKS pirates.
Some of us actually work hard to develop things here for North America what is realistically a tiny, pissant market. This isn’t Europe or Asia with millions of people buying STB’s, dishes and LNBFs. The few doing it here actually love True FTA as a hobby. The only people here getting rich are the ones selling the pirate boxes, there really isn’t much money in the True FTA stuff. Keep in mind when you buy that $54 toilet that if the guys actually bringing and supporting True FTA in NA quit doing it that the $54 STB providers won’t be able to steal NA stuff to bring to you.
I am not like certain other people where I come here to self promote and nothing else. Actually if you are of the mindset that outright illegal crap like X2, junkbox, linkbox etc is ok, I DON’T want to sell you an Amiko. If you actually want legal products and to support True FTA in North America, give some support to Satellite AV and/or Titanium. Pay a few bucks extra and get a LEGAL True FTA product rather than stolen counterfeits.
I know for a fact that they fraudulently stole and used Satellite AV’s DOC’s. I know they stole code to fix the few things that they fixed. I know for a fact that they have twice attempted to secure our NA Amiko’s to do the same thing.
And yes it most definitely comes in one configuration only…setup for IKS and theft of Dish Network subscription programming. And yes I have an email in my possession where X2 was more than happy to offer a dealer help in setting up IKS to steal Dish Network.
The guys supporting these products have never had an original idea they didn’t steal from someone else.
But who cares, you can get a pathetically assembled $17 china unit for only $54! You aren’t going to personally use it for stealing Dish Network so it is ok that everything in it is stolen.
I’ve had my eye on a nice $600 9mm and a $500 HDTV. I can get the same items “off the truck” for only $100 each. I only intend to target shoot and watch OTA/terrestrial. Therefore it doesn’t matter that someone’s house was broken into, stolen from or anything else that might have happened along the way, as long as I get me a good 9mm and TV for dirt cheap.
You guys with this attitude are NOT True FTA people. You are no better than the IKS pirates.
Some of us actually work hard to develop things here for North America what is realistically a tiny, pissant market. This isn’t Europe or Asia with millions of people buying STB’s, dishes and LNBFs. The few doing it here actually love True FTA as a hobby. The only people here getting rich are the ones selling the pirate boxes, there really isn’t much money in the True FTA stuff. Keep in mind when you buy that $54 toilet that if the guys actually bringing and supporting True FTA in NA quit doing it that the $54 STB providers won’t be able to steal NA stuff to bring to you.
I am not like certain other people where I come here to self promote and nothing else. Actually if you are of the mindset that outright illegal crap like X2, junkbox, linkbox etc is ok, I DON’T want to sell you an Amiko. If you actually want legal products and to support True FTA in North America, give some support to Satellite AV and/or Titanium. Pay a few bucks extra and get a LEGAL True FTA product rather than stolen counterfeits.
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I think most of us here have no clue what receivers are in compliance with licensing and patent laws and which are not, just like a lot of people buy clones with no idea it is a clone. If you go to Walmart and buy a hdtv you assume it is legal and not off a truck. Amazon, which most X2’s are sold at, are the Walmart of online shopping. X2’s are warehoused and shipped by Amazon fulfillment.
According to your post Linkbox receivers are illegal, yet there are reputable dealers selling them.
Part of the blame for stolen technology has to go to the distributors. They take there product to questionable Chinese manufactures so the can have it made for $17 then they may or may not pay licensing ( not sure how we would know) and sell it here for $300. Then their oem knocks it off and sells it for half the price and we have no clue its not the original. Distributors need to vet there manufacturers better or better yet have them made in the USA where manufacturers have some ethics.
Please note I am not trying to talk bad about any distributors serving the north american market. I do appreciate folks like Titanium that are working to provide new and innovative products for the North American market. Just pointing out that it is unrealistic to expect the average consumer to know when a product is or is not legally licensed or if the technology was stolen when they purchase them thru legitimate sources (not off a truck).
According to your post Linkbox receivers are illegal, yet there are reputable dealers selling them.
Part of the blame for stolen technology has to go to the distributors. They take there product to questionable Chinese manufactures so the can have it made for $17 then they may or may not pay licensing ( not sure how we would know) and sell it here for $300. Then their oem knocks it off and sells it for half the price and we have no clue its not the original. Distributors need to vet there manufacturers better or better yet have them made in the USA where manufacturers have some ethics.
Please note I am not trying to talk bad about any distributors serving the north american market. I do appreciate folks like Titanium that are working to provide new and innovative products for the North American market. Just pointing out that it is unrealistic to expect the average consumer to know when a product is or is not legally licensed or if the technology was stolen when they purchase them thru legitimate sources (not off a truck).
