Bonds Stands Alone #756 *

[Brewer4]

It's done, it's over. Alex Rodriguez will probably break it.

I think he will. I really don't like him but at least there doesn't appear to be any enhancements except lucky body and hard work.

 

[Paul Wozniak]

************

 

[cooper]

Leave it to a New Yawker, and Met fan, to rain on the local's parade.

Kid from Queens' catch of lifetime

 

[Peter Parker]

The question really is who played less games to get to 755

Not sure why that is the question but last night was career game 2,958 for Mr. Bonds. Mr. Aaron appeared in 3,298 games. Not sure in which game he hit 755.

You ahve to remember that Aaron was never a flashy guy in terms of personality or performance. He never had a 70 homer year. In fact he never hada 60 homer year or even a 50 homer year. He got there by churning out an above average number of home runs conssitently over the years.

 

[cybok0]

I think he will. I really don't like him but at least there doesn't appear to be any enhancements except lucky body and hard work.

A-Rod will be the HR record Saviour.

 

[BigTimMN]

Bonds isnt the only one to blame in this whole mess, All of Baseball is at fault. The Owners, Selig, The Union, every last one of them could of stood up and fixed this problem long ago, but they all quietly turned away as many players "cheated".

Only now, that the public has came down hard on the issue have they cleaned it up, and now they want to hang out to dry players taht did it, I dont have proof, but I am POSITIVE, that some team owners were completely AWARE and SUPPORTED the idea of the players taking Roids and otehr enhancers, HR's put butts in the seats and $$ in there pockets, and the more money the owners get, the more money ALL the players get... so why would ANYONE stop it?

I am not a Bonds Fan or a Hater, I just look at it as a BASEBALL problem, and they cant * his records as it was a LEAGUE issue, he was not the only one doing it.

And if you want to * his records, you have many many records to *, any player that had the benefit of not needing to work a "winter" job and could focus on year round training and newer technologies to make his body better should be * in the book, whether it was legal or illegal its an advantage over the players of the past.

 

[Peter Parker]

Bonds ~10K and Hank was ~12K

I believe thiose reflect plate appearances not games played which was the original question. It would take over 60 years to appear in 10,000 regular season games. Even with WS,All Star etc counted it that number cannot be correct.

 

[sidekick]

Personally, I think all of this talk about Barry Bonds tainting the game, etc., is a load of crap spewed by knee-jerking, holier than thou hypocrites. Steroids are supplements meant to increase the capacity of the body to perform. Aren't there other supplements that people take to increase strength, stamina, etc? Why aren't they banned as well? Answer: because people have jumped on this steroid bandwagon like lemmings to the cliff.

Records can never be matched up generationally because the times are radically different. In Babe Ruth's time, teams traveled by train, bus and car. Nowadays, the teams travel for the most part by the air. This gives a distinct advantage as it's less wear and tear on the body. The bats were processed in different fashion as were the balls. It's much like golf, where the players in the 30's couldn't hit 300 yard drives like they do today. Why? For the most part because of the equipment, but also because of the training of the players.


My question is this: Why are supplements like steroids banned from "professional" sports. As stated above, we're never going to be back in the days of Ruth, Gehrig, etc. If you're going to ban steroids, what else should be banned? How about Lasik? That procedure gives a distinct advantage to the hitter and there's no way that it can be argued that a Lasik procedure is natural. How about the weight machines that target specific portions of the body to increase their muscle awareness, etc. Should they be banned as well? Should players be limited to lifting natural objects that they find in nature like rocks, cows, etc.? Even if you go back to the days of Ruth, speed, bennies, etc., were common place and used by countless players. Do we taint their records as well?

Anyways, I think the whole steroid controversy is a waste of time. Sports enthusiasts that argue that the purity of the game has been tainted simply don't get it. As time marches on, advances march on as well. If they didn't ... kick the can would be an olympic event.

 

[Peter Parker]

The bottom line answer is that steroids ARE illegal and procedures like LASIK (which most batters avoid) are not. The question comes down to are you allowed to use a substance that is banned because you do not approve of the ban and did bonds do that.

I do agree with the statement that if Bonds did use the (and I think he did) that he was not alone and that baseball could not have been blind to the practice. In that sense the sportasa whole shares the blame for the fact that the record that it has told us for years is so sacred is now questioned.

 

[riffjim4069]

I'll bet Barry Bonds was pumped after hitting number 756...and juiced too!

 

[salsadancer7]

I'll bet Barry Bonds was pumped after hitting number 756...and juiced too!

I highly doubt it. I bet he is one of the most test baseball players in the game. I wouldn't be surprised that he has been clean from the moment the Balco thing broke out. Didn't you notice that BEFORE the Balco thing, he was BARELY hurt...average almost 145 games played a year since 1987....Balco breaks...and broke down.

EVERYONE that has been caught since Balco, suspended.

 

[salsadancer7]

Personally, I think all of this talk about Barry Bonds tainting the game, etc., is a load of crap spewed by knee-jerking, holier than thou hypocrites. Steroids are supplements meant to increase the capacity of the body to perform. Aren't there other supplements that people take to increase strength, stamina, etc? Why aren't they banned as well? Answer: because people have jumped on this steroid bandwagon like lemmings to the cliff.

Records can never be matched up generationally because the times are radically different. In Babe Ruth's time, teams traveled by train, bus and car. Nowadays, the teams travel for the most part by the air. This gives a distinct advantage as it's less wear and tear on the body. The bats were processed in different fashion as were the balls. It's much like golf, where the players in the 30's couldn't hit 300 yard drives like they do today. Why? For the most part because of the equipment, but also because of the training of the players.


My question is this: Why are supplements like steroids banned from "professional" sports. As stated above, we're never going to be back in the days of Ruth, Gehrig, etc. If you're going to ban steroids, what else should be banned? How about Lasik? That procedure gives a distinct advantage to the hitter and there's no way that it can be argued that a Lasik procedure is natural. How about the weight machines that target specific portions of the body to increase their muscle awareness, etc. Should they be banned as well? Should players be limited to lifting natural objects that they find in nature like rocks, cows, etc.? Even if you go back to the days of Ruth, speed, bennies, etc., were common place and used by countless players. Do we taint their records as well?

Anyways, I think the whole steroid controversy is a waste of time. Sports enthusiasts that argue that the purity of the game has been tainted simply don't get it. As time marches on, advances march on as well. If they didn't ... kick the can would be an olympic event.

Great post! Alot of people just seem to think that steroids JUST build muscles...and that is not the case.

Also....steroids did NOTHING for his eye-hand coordination, and NO ONE has a better eye in the game than Bonds(averages OVER 130 walks a game and LESS than 80 SO per season).

 

[sidekick]

Steroids aren't illegal if prescribed. Regardless, that still doesn't answer the question as to why they're banned?

The bottom line answer is that steroids ARE illegal and procedures like LASIK (which most batters avoid) are not. The question comes down to are you allowed to use a substance that is banned because you do not approve of the ban and did bonds do that.

I do agree with the statement that if Bonds did use the (and I think he did) that he was not alone and that baseball could not have been blind to the practice. In that sense the sportasa whole shares the blame for the fact that the record that it has told us for years is so sacred is now questioned.

 

[Peter Parker]

The allegations concern using a substance that is banned by the sport not a substance that is necessarily illegal. those are separate questions. I understand that you---and likely those that may have chosen to sue the substance do not like the ban. But do players have the right to decide on their own whether to accept the bans?

 

[sidekick]

I can agree with that, and the answer would be no. It's just interesting (and quite hypocritical) to me how baseball turned a blind eye to it's use when it benefited the sport and then after the strike when the game was back on it's feet, they start demonizing the players who helped the sport get back on track. The real question is did Barry Bonds use the substances knowingly when they were banned? If not ... leave him alone.

The allegations concern using a substance that is banned by the sport not a substance that is necessarily illegal. those are separate questions. I understand that you---and likely those that may have chosen to sue the substance do not like the ban. But do players have the right to decide on their own whether to accept the bans?

 

[Peter Parker]

We do not disagree at all about whether the management of the sport is at least partially to blame for this situation. They most certainly are.

 

[sidekick]

and remember, THG wasn't banned until March 2004 and players weren't tested for steroids until Spring of 2003.

 

[iceturkee]

not to mention what longterm steroid use does to your body. anybody who puts that junk in their body, just to be stronger, ain't a winner with me.

loved the headline on the front of today's (local) sports section: in big bold letters....A * Is Born

 

[Peter Parker]

and remember, THG wasn't banned until March 2004 and players weren't tested for steroids until Spring of 2003.

yes one of the oddest parts of all this is that for a significant period of time steroids were banned but there was no testing. That is why it is somewhat meaningless to say Bonds never failed a test in those years (he never took one during that period to fail) and that baseball had to be able to see that there wasa aproblem before they started to enforce the ban.

 

[BigTimMN]

How can you ban something and not test for it?

Thats the hypocrisy of sports. They "Ban" it, but then dont test for it, so whos to say if anyone is doing it or not.

And Steroids DO NOT build muscle, they speed up healing and the rebuilding of cells. My mother is going thru Chemotherapy and they give her Steroids as part of her treatment, and its to help the body to recover faster.

faster recovery = more frequent workouts = more muscle mass.

A part of baseball that is being scrutinized as much is PITCHING. If pitcher (relievers especially) take steroids, they could pitch more often and more effectively and do not have teh growth and mass that a hitter would have. Juan Rincon of the Twins is a prime example, he was suspended, and IMO hasnt been the same pitcher since, he lost some of his "stuff" when he stopped taking the "stuff".

there are some big name pitchers that have played a long time, that quite possibly could be tainted as well, how can we suddenly have such a huge jump in 300 game winners? Yes, they are taking care of themselves better but, its a question taht needs to be posed, may or may not be true.. but its possible.