****My rant against PQ on New Encoders****
- Thread starter Sean Mota
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Most of my channels look worse than ever. It's like watching a VCD on a large screen. TNTHD looks as if it is being broadcast through coke bottles. I'm also having lip sync issues on many channels. If this continues, it won't matter what happens come April 1st.
fireman1000 said:
Totally agreed on your observations.....and while watching the Florida Marlins play against the Houston Astro's, yesterday, on Channel 340....the FSN FL station.....I observed this.
A baseball that was NOT round.......rather it looked like a hexagonal apparatus.....a multi faceted stop sign.
The ball had been fouled off and rolled down the 3rd baseline.......the camera followed the ball to see its progress in crossing the foul line....but even though the ball was ROLLING....it shouldn't have been cuz the ball wasn't round...the compression process had removed its smooth surface and it looked like a rolling hexagonal stop sign....in white.
The ball remained round and spheroid on DirecTV and BrightHouse cable.
You can guess where I watched the rest of the game.....and I agree on that April 1st mention....if the PQ doesn't improve I am going to be caring less.
Tarmack
This is what I said yesterday at the beginning.vurbano said:
However, I find it hard to believe that the Voom engineers don't know this and will not do anything about it. MLS games on HDnet have no pixelation. The old encoders with a game on Worldsport had no pixelation. The data transmission rate was higher(I'm guessing) with the Mot encoders than it is now. Decrease the compression rate and our quality will return.
My install date was Jan 12, 2005. For almost 2 months, Voom was nearly perfect.
After the beginning of March, it is now average.
I have said before, this is what we are going to get. "Tweaking" ???? No way, either they know the software or they don't. And after a couple of weeks, they should have figured it out.
After the beginning of March, it is now average.
I have said before, this is what we are going to get. "Tweaking" ???? No way, either they know the software or they don't. And after a couple of weeks, they should have figured it out.
vurbano said:
Uh, better read up on how these encoders work along with Harmonic's statistical multiplexing. Sean is correct, they are supposed to give you the ability to carry more channels with existing bandwidth by using variable bit rates.
Read the white paper on the statistical multiplexer and the MV 450 encoder to understand how this works.
http://www.harmonicinc.com/view_csd_product_group.cfm?classID=1010
Sean Mota said:
Welcome to the club
...Me and very few others kept complaining about Voom's PQ for about a year now but you all tried to convince us that we must be using RCA cables for HD
. You're right, the PQ on some channels dropped dramatically after they implemented the harmonic thing. But to be honest, the PQ on Cinema channels is better now - it used to be unacceptable, IMO. I feel really sad that the PQ is worse on my favorite channels: WorldSport, Rave, Rush, and Equator HD
.Nevertheless, I still think Voom is better choice than DIsh or DirecTV. They've been responsive to customer complaints so far and I believe they will correct the problem if they stay in the business.
softwiz said:
Variable bit rates--that's why compression on some channels are worse especially Worldsport.
Let's be clear that the degradation in PQ has come about when the New Encoders came online. I did not say that it was in every channels but there are HD channels that have suffered. The channels were HD video are used is where you can see the degradation. The film transfers channels are not as obvious to see but just in certain scenes like big explosition, flashes of lights or very very fast motion.
Let's see what are the HD Video channels: HDnews, Equator HD, Rush HD, WorldSport HD, Gallery HD, Auction HD, Lab HD, Discovery HD Theater and TNT HD.
You can always find motion artifacts on HDnews, Equator HD, Rush HD & Worldsport HD.
On HDnews you can see that the video has problem whenever there is highlights of basketball games. Also, look at segment that says "and now your financial news..." This introductory segment lasts about 4-5 seconds but it shows you the problem of flashing lights not decoding properly. Concentrate on the Lights that come out of the bottom and background and you will see the pixels trying to resolve. This was never there.
On TNT HD, you will only see the motion artifacts during basketball games.
On Discovery HD, Equator HD, Gallery HD, Auction HD and Lab HD, you will rarely see the motion artifacts because there is no fast motion on these channels. You will see instead two problems: (1) mosquito noise (2) the cut frame noise. The cut frame noise is when the HD frame cuts and you will see for two seconds mosquito noise before the new frames comes forward.
On the HD cinema channels and Premium channels like HBO, Starz, Cinemax, Showtime, the PQ is quite good but not at the point it was before. The HD film transfers do not show the motion artifacts but it will show you the cut frame noise.
If you want to see the cut frame noise, they are running a new promtion on their movie channels. Concentrate on each cut frame and you will see the noise. This was never before seeing.
As far as SD channels is concerned, I have no opinion yet. Let's fix the HD channels first and then look at the SD channels.
Let's see what are the HD Video channels: HDnews, Equator HD, Rush HD, WorldSport HD, Gallery HD, Auction HD, Lab HD, Discovery HD Theater and TNT HD.
You can always find motion artifacts on HDnews, Equator HD, Rush HD & Worldsport HD.
On HDnews you can see that the video has problem whenever there is highlights of basketball games. Also, look at segment that says "and now your financial news..." This introductory segment lasts about 4-5 seconds but it shows you the problem of flashing lights not decoding properly. Concentrate on the Lights that come out of the bottom and background and you will see the pixels trying to resolve. This was never there.
On TNT HD, you will only see the motion artifacts during basketball games.
On Discovery HD, Equator HD, Gallery HD, Auction HD and Lab HD, you will rarely see the motion artifacts because there is no fast motion on these channels. You will see instead two problems: (1) mosquito noise (2) the cut frame noise. The cut frame noise is when the HD frame cuts and you will see for two seconds mosquito noise before the new frames comes forward.
On the HD cinema channels and Premium channels like HBO, Starz, Cinemax, Showtime, the PQ is quite good but not at the point it was before. The HD film transfers do not show the motion artifacts but it will show you the cut frame noise.
If you want to see the cut frame noise, they are running a new promtion on their movie channels. Concentrate on each cut frame and you will see the noise. This was never before seeing.
As far as SD channels is concerned, I have no opinion yet. Let's fix the HD channels first and then look at the SD channels.
Caught Sea of Love on UHD last night, and the picture quality was horrible. Most likely a bad transfer, but there were definitely some motion artifacts (especially during the scene where the killer tries to kill the Al Pacino character) as well as some of the fade in/out pixelation.
-John
-John
At the end of February, I had a service technician come over to realign my VOOM dish after a severe wind storm. It turned out the original installation fellow never had the dish 100% aligned properly.
For a few days, my VOOM picture quality was SPECTACULAR -- not just excellent, but STUDENDOUS. I even thought a few SD channels had gone high def!
Then along came the new encoders in March.
PQ went to hell -- big time. Some SD channels became nearly unwatchable and many HD channels grew "soft" and lost their crispness.
Over the last two weeks the engineers have improved their "calibration" of the encoders and the PQ is better; however, it's still not as good as it was before the new encoders.
Damn.
Come on, VOOM, please make things as they were. I feel that I can no longer be a cheerleader for your service. Sure you've got more HD content, but you just cannot degrade PQ to cram more channels like cable does.
VOOM, you're shooting yourself in the foot, my friends.
For a few days, my VOOM picture quality was SPECTACULAR -- not just excellent, but STUDENDOUS. I even thought a few SD channels had gone high def!
Then along came the new encoders in March.
PQ went to hell -- big time. Some SD channels became nearly unwatchable and many HD channels grew "soft" and lost their crispness.
Over the last two weeks the engineers have improved their "calibration" of the encoders and the PQ is better; however, it's still not as good as it was before the new encoders.
Damn.
Come on, VOOM, please make things as they were. I feel that I can no longer be a cheerleader for your service. Sure you've got more HD content, but you just cannot degrade PQ to cram more channels like cable does.
VOOM, you're shooting yourself in the foot, my friends.
While I have always had some issue with PQ, I VOOM is really my only option for HD. I only have one OTA HD channel available. I hope VOOM can fix it and I agree they need to start with the HD channels first. That is the bread of butter for subs.
Agreeded, VOOM you must try, not try,get your PQ back to the level it was before the new encoders,the last thing that needs to happen is to lose the loyals here that have hung with and defended VOOM form the start(I can't consider myself one as I have only had the service for 2 months)
Motion sickness
Like man I'm just sitting here watching Moov and, you know, the colors man, the colors, are like all blurry and washed out and not cool. It's not right you know. They used to be so much better but now they just aren't right. Just a drag.
Like man I'm just sitting here watching Moov and, you know, the colors man, the colors, are like all blurry and washed out and not cool. It's not right you know. They used to be so much better but now they just aren't right. Just a drag.
Sorry guys, but bottom line is....
Compress less, lose channel upgrade/additions...
Lose channel additions, break the new Voom model of having all channels DTV and Dish have to take their subs.
Break that model, lose VOOM, which, although the PQ is not as sharp as it was, without VOOM, THERE IS NO HIDEF OUT THERE (or not alot!) without VOOM.
Lets calm down, let them get past 4/1, let them get Rainbow 2 online, and fix the PQ at that point. They have a ton of bandwidth on R2 waiting to be used!
I for one, would hate to leave voom. I love the ota/sat combination on one box.
Compress less, lose channel upgrade/additions...
Lose channel additions, break the new Voom model of having all channels DTV and Dish have to take their subs.
Break that model, lose VOOM, which, although the PQ is not as sharp as it was, without VOOM, THERE IS NO HIDEF OUT THERE (or not alot!) without VOOM.
Lets calm down, let them get past 4/1, let them get Rainbow 2 online, and fix the PQ at that point. They have a ton of bandwidth on R2 waiting to be used!
I for one, would hate to leave voom. I love the ota/sat combination on one box.
softwiz said:
they use more efficient alogorithms meaning greater compression. Hence the degraded PQ. Theyve been using statistical multiplexers from the start, nothing new there. Its not rocket science and frankly what youve posted here is marketing bologna. Again as I said previously "you cannot manufacture bandwidth" , the amount is the same as its always been.
