Success!!! 4dtv/dc-ii+ Hdtv On A Mini Bud!!!!

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HDTVFanAtic

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May 23, 2005
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Success!!!!:D

I must admit I didn't give it a high level of hope - especially after being told by virtually everyone that it was impossible - from C Band Suppliers, Commercial Satellite Experts, Program Providers and people on various forums that said it was iffy with their 7.5 foot dish - and 10 was minimum for Florida.

Today was the day I was determined to find out if I could get a C Band Digital HD signal and get it decoded with a VC-II+ into a HDD-200 on a mini-bud. Before I start, let me say that the mini-bud is in fact a 1.8M, not a 1.2M.

As Prodelin wanted close to $200 for the C Band spars to the 1.8M I had, I wanted some additional assurances before I shelled out 2 Benjamins for spars.

The commercial satellite company that I have recommended in the Sunshine state called me and said they had a 1.8M Mesh SAMI Prime Focus that had come back from a commercial client who was getting to much TI and needed a bigger size.

So I pulled out the DSR-905 and the HDD-200 that I had picked up and made the 45 mile trek out to their facility where they had the SAMI on a 3.5 inch pipe in their back lot near all their uplink trucks.

We decided that 127W would be the best shot as it has the 40 Watt C Band Transponders which are the most C Band Transponders up there.

First thing was to the get the DSR-905 authorized, which turned out to be the most challenging part of this exercise. As the place I was at deals with the commercial Motorola DSR-4400s, they had very little experience with the DSR-900 Consumer line. In fact, they openly stated their hate for Motorola and the Digicipher II + system for reasons I found out as the afternoon wore on.

As it turns out, every 4DTV Program Reseller that I could find was nothing but essentially a call center and had zero technical knowledge - so when it we could not get a hit to take, the CSRs were clueless (big surprise). Of course, Motorola won't talk to you (which is why the commercial company hates Motorola and DC-II) and since most equipment people are not familar with the authorization process problems, when it goes bad you are own your own.

After several hours of nightmares trying just to get the unit authorized and hearing every excuse from Program Resellers (such as they would not authorize us when I told them I was trying with a 1.8M Dish as I needed a 8ft Dish Minimum, or you cannot get HBO-HD unless you also have an analog Receiver and other BS), we went to a steerable 3.8M that they use on site.

After several more hours of frustration trying to take hits on G5 and G1, we were about to call it a day. Then I finally stumbled onto the code for the hidden tech menu that none of these Re-Sellers knew existed. I found it on one of the links that dfergie listed several days ago when comparing the DSR-900 series. Without that link and code, we would have never got it working, so a tip of the hat :hatsoff: to dfergie for the assist!

I was able to do an authorization reset and within minutes we could see the trip count increase for the Program Guide from the G1 hit.

With that working, we had the 3.8M move to G9 and went to 118-120-122-124 - and finally got a green light for them after switching Horizontal and Vertical a few times (It doesn't help that these CSRs have no idea which transponder Channel 118 is on - and that I am trying to tell a Commercial Company G9 which he knows as Galaxy 13) - too much is lost in translation.

Regardless, finally got it tuned in and we peaked the signal on the 3.8M with a spectrum analyzer for the best null.It gave us a signal of 92 and a quality of 96. That number was important for comparison sake.

As this 1.8M will most likely be fixed at 127W, it was important that the rehit for the channel would work on 127W and there was a lot of debate about if that would work - with most of the Resellers saying it would not again, so then another call to sub to the channels. This one went off without a hitch and HBO-HD and STARZ-HD opened up to reveal their C Band HD Goodness. So much for all the naysayers.

Then the real test came. The SAMI was outside about 125 feet away. We plugged the RG6 Quad in and to our surprise the signal stayed at 92. The Quality did drop to 64...but we were able to repeak it with the Spectrum Analyzer so it bounced between 64 and 68.

I should also note that this was done looking right into a very heavy Thunderstorm with rain and lightning in the line of sight to the bird. To put it bluntly, they were even shocked at the signal and quality level.

They said they would sell me the 1.8 SAMI Mesh for less than Prodelin wanted for my 1.8 C Band Spars, so I am thinking that might be the wise move.

We used 2 Norsat Gold Commercial LNBs which are 25 degrees. They were mounted on the Prime Focus SAMI at 90 degree angles with one connection off each. I know DMS has 13 degree LNBs, but as I know this works, I am somewhat hesitant to change them.

Thoughts?
 
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dfergie

dfergie

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HERE TO HELP YOU!
Congrats... :) Glad to be able to help. :D Thanks... I just received a identical analog receiver to one I have from another staff member and since D* seems to not care about HD subs might just migrate my D* money back to BUD and go for the 4DTV HD also...
 
dfergie

dfergie

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HERE TO HELP YOU!
And as a follow up thanks to all the C-Band folks that have contributed and continue to contribute to help keep the C-Band FAQ's a viable source of info for all C, Ku and FTA SatelliteGuys...(adding to the FAQ"S Thanks)
 
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HDTVFanAtic

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May 23, 2005
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The amazing thing is that HBO-HD and STARZ-HD, its $25.95 a month on a monthly basis for C-Band - both East and West Feed. E* Charges $14.95 for HBO and $11.95 for Starz for the East Coast only version of both (with Starz-HD in crappy MPEG4).
 
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tdti1

SatelliteGuys Pro
Nov 23, 2004
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Montreal, QC
Nearly any signal that you can get in the 90's with a 10' a smaller dish will pick it up, drop about 10 quaility points per foot, it's not impossible just not recommended.

With such a undersized reflector I would grab the 8115 Norsat, this should help lock the feed better, if the 905 is like the 922 45 is the lowest quality reading that will give you a problem free picture.

Also keep in mind that 125 and 129 do not have much that will cause issues with your DCII feeds on those freq's @ 127 for now.
 
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HDTVFanAtic

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tdti1 said:
Nearly any signal that you can get in the 90's with a 10' a smaller dish will pick it up, drop about 10 quaility points per foot, it's not impossible just not recommended.

With such a undersized reflector I would grab the 8115 Norsat, this should help lock the feed better, if the 905 is like the 922 45 is the lowest quality reading that will give you a problem free picture.

Also keep in mind that 125 and 129 do not have much that will cause issues with your DCII feeds on those freq's @ 127 for now.

Thanks for the input!

I had read in the 905 manual that the it said 20 was the lower limit - but I thought that was questionable as well. I guess 45 is a real world number.

We figured looking at the power on 127W and @125 and @129 that there wasn't much there to give us an issue, just as you stated, which bore itself out.

I will check into the difference for the 8115.
 
voomvoom

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I can get a picture with a 17-19 Quality on my 920, on a 10' fiberglass dish. Of course the better Quality, the more stable picture. I have a modified dish actuator mount and it stops perfect going west, but is off when going east. There is way to much play in the movement. After peaking, I get from high 30's to low 90's, depending which sat I'm on. But, I get a picture starting at 17-19 Quality. This is with a 40k Drake C lnb and a 7db Toshiba ku lnb. At 327' of cable line with splitters about 240' from the dish.

Al
 
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tdti1

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Nov 23, 2004
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voomvoom said:
I can get a picture with a 17-19 Quality on my 920


The 920 readings are not the same as the 922, though I am not sure about the 905, I would think it would most likely be like the 922 but I am not 100% sure.
 
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HDTVFanAtic

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May 23, 2005
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The 17-19 on the 920 would be comparable to the manual saying a 20 minimum for the 905, but then again I have less than 18 hours experience with the unit, lol.
 
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tdti1

SatelliteGuys Pro
Nov 23, 2004
2,320
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Montreal, QC
HDTVFanAtic said:
The 17-19 on the 920 would be comparable to the manual saying a 20 minimum for the 905, but then again I have less than 18 hours experience with the unit, lol.


Just read on the 4dtv forum that the 905 and 922 have the same tuner, so the readings of 40-45 are the lowest before you have issues.

At times I can (because of trees) watch stuff on my 922 at around 37 quality, but for some odd reason at times it will be unwatchable at that same level, so I would say 45 is the lowest with error free viewing.
 
K

Kb Cool

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Oct 31, 2005
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Mesa, AZ
HDTVFanAtic said:
Its used so not 100% sure (as it was too late to take down from the mount yesterday and move to my house) but I believe this is it:

http://www.samidish.com/6ft.html


I think you'll be alright. I too have a six footer that gets the G9 hd's with no problem. The hbo's on G1 are another story though. Can't get them with a 920, can get them with a 922.( I beleive the 922 has a stronger tuner)
 
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kwag

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Sep 30, 2006
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HDTVFanAtic said:
Then I finally stumbled onto the code for the hidden tech menu that none of these Re-Sellers knew existed. I found it on one of the links that dfergie listed several days ago when comparing the DSR-900 series. Without that link and code, we would have never got it working, so a tip of the hat :hatsoff: to dfergie for the assist!
Hi HDTVFanAtic & dfergie,

Could you point me to that link?

Thanks,
-Karl
 
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tdti1

SatelliteGuys Pro
Nov 23, 2004
2,320
3
Montreal, QC
kwag said:
Hi HDTVFanAtic & dfergie,

Could you point me to that link?

Thanks,
-Karl

He may be talking about an authorization reset, NPS and SRL reps should know this by now, since many new units need it to be done the first time around

Options 6-7-7-8-0 you may want to tap 0 a few times and maybe even exit and redo the whole set of key pressing once or twice to make sure it goes through.
 
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