first time set-up

[vixens]

try pumping up levels with the weak odd and then try to give the aim an average where you lock all over 60% or more.

Thanks, will do so.

So far I have used tp 10 to pump it up.
The strange thing is that my current readings (69 to 93) seem to be strong enough.

Is there a home transponder like on Dish ?

 

[texasbrit]

Choose one of the non-spotbeam TPs that is currently showing zero. Maybe TP7.

Unless you are getting ALL the TPs at a reasonable level, the chances are your receiver won't start up properly.

 

[Rafaelccs]

So far I have used tp 10 to pump it up.

Theres the First mistake, there are 3 satellites in orbital Slot 101 W as I posted previously, you are aimed more to the Even (DirecTV 4S & 9S)
Readings you are receiving from the odd are the ones that are double power from the sat, try to pump up with a odd at the most, then write down you readings and compare with the actually ones you have.
If you then see you have higher the odd and lower the even you have to aim in the middle so you can acquire an average and have all locked instead of some.

The strange thing is that my current readings (69 to 93) seem to be strong enough.

They might be strong enough and they are good readings, but I think you have a change to lock on all odd also.

Is there a home transponder like on Dish ?

Here is something I wanted to clear out:

1.- One thing is that you aren't locking on all odd and even out of 101W (not Spot Beams of course).
2.- Other thing is that your receiver isn't being capable to read out what satellite or service it is aimed to.

Regarding point #2 my best guess is that you haven't set up well the type of LNBF you are using, as suggested previously, you must configure at this moment only with Round LNB
no swm, etc, etc.

?If you are indeed aimed to 101W you can get channel info and guide out of Tps 2 & 10 (which you have lock and high levels on your post).

 

[texasbrit]

There is not much point in trying to improve the even TPs where you are getting signal. As I posted, you need to get signals on the ones showing zero (except of course the spotbeams)

 

[vixens]

Regarding point #2 my best guess is that you haven't set up well the type of LNBF you are using, as suggested previously, you must configure at this moment only with Round LNB
no swm, etc, etc.

In the past I have tried EVERY set-up option; naturally the one lnb set-up for round dish mostly. it has not made any difference.

I will be using just a regular standard lnb and do the set-up for round dish/1 lnb and try to tune up more evenly between even and odd tp.

thanks again for your tips.
if weather permits I should get some time to play on Thurs.
will keep you updated once there is news.

 

[Rafaelccs]

In the past I have tried EVERY set-up option; naturally the one lnb set-up for round dish mostly. it has not made any difference.

I will be using just a regular standard lnb and do the set-up for round dish/1 lnb and try to tune up more evenly between even and odd tp.

thanks again for your tips.
if weather permits I should get some time to play on Thurs.
will keep you updated once there is news.

Just one final thing.....
I found the signal first with a spectrum analyzer, then I used a HR21 no signal levels.......
What I did was I used a standard definition receiver and I got the readings....
Finally the HR21 gave me some readings but 20% more than the standard receiver levels
this means the HD receiver need to have a high level of locked signal, if not enough it simply wont display

Fringe is tricky and needs besides a lot of experience deep pockets to buy all the goodies, just to test no warranties that it will work, that is why I'm not impressed when I read your post that the guy from Mexico Charged $8,500
for the DirecTV set up in Belize...imagine how much he spent in research, it could be a bit pricey but there's acomodation expenses also, I guess the guy doesn't set up the thing in 20 minutes like when in the CONUS
All this of course if the thing DOES work.....and how it works because it will never work like in the CONUS, and if so the task is expensive, also you'll never get spot beam so you need special Locals out of eastern or western CONUS feed
so you need a special address (probably New York or LA Hope you have a friend there)

Consider this:

You are having a hard time to aim DirecTV 8 (odd transponders) with DirecTV 4S & 9S all @ 101W in Ku band (stronger than Ka)

after you sync 101 W (Ku-Band / easy part) now you have to get in sync with Ka-Band (the hard part of the task):

Orbital Slot 99 W Ka-Lo: Satellite: DirecTV 11 Tps: 1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10,11,12,13,14 (CONUS Beam)
Orbital Slot 103 W Ka-Lo: Satellite: DirecTV 10 Tps: 1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10,11,12,13,14 (CONUS Beam)
Orbital Slot 103 W Ka-Hi: Satellite: DirecTV 12 Tps: 9,10,11,12,13,14,15,16,17,18,19,20,21,22,23,24 (CONUS Beam)

Then comes combining as I posted previously by the pictures I saw the tech from Mexico might have managed (if working) to combine the Low Ka with Diplexors, but I highly doubt he could combine the High (Hi) Ka located in the upper portion of the L-Band (1650 to 2150 MHz)

I really hope it works this task needs skills....

Good Luck!!

 

[raoul5788]

We did warn him early on that this would likely not work.

 

[vixens]

I never got any time to experiment, we had some rains.

I found the signal first with a spectrum analyzer, then I used a HR21 no signal levels.......
What I did was I used a standard definition receiver and I got the readings....
Finally the HR21 gave me some readings but 20% more than the standard receiver levels
this means the HD receiver need to have a high level of locked signal, if not enough it simply wont display

That makes now totally sense. I said before that it looks the HR starts reading with 50 and
if the signal is below it shows zero level.

I am very much aware that this is a difficult task. At least I have a HR22 with LA subscription.
First I need to lock the 101W and get the receiver re-activated; I guess w/o updates it has already expired.


Thanks, ww

 

[vixens]

101W working fine . . . thanks guys !

will seek advise when I have an AIM meter and can search KU signals.

Thanks again.

 

[texasbrit]

101W working fine . . . thanks guys !

will seek advise when I have an AIM meter and can search KU signals.

Thanks again.

What signal levels did you get in the end?
I think you mean search for Ka signals.

That's going to be much more of a problem. If you just use a single LNB assembly (99/101/103) you are very unlikely to make it work. The dish is not shaped correctly to get three satellites. Did the other person you mentioned use a single dish? If so I suspect he has a multi-LNB mount, where you can locate multiple LNBs at the best place for the signal using the single dish. Then you would have to "build" LNBs suitable for 99 and 103, presumably by modifying the electronics in two Slimline LNBs, and get/build electronics capable of merging the 99 and 101 signals. Not something the average amateur could do.

 

[vixens]

yes, one dish with 3 lnbs and multi lnb mount. Look at the pictures I took from that set-up a few months ago; posted earlier.

 

[vixens]

The guy/neighbor with the working 3-lnb Ku/Ka set-up (as shown in picture on page 9 http://www.satelliteguys.us/threads/309927-first-time-set-up/page9) is still on vacation.
A neighbor told me that this might take a while.
Therefore I cannot take any readings from his receiver.

Meanwhile I will experiment with the Hawaii/Alaska non-SWM Triple Ka/Ku LNB to see if I can get anything more than the 101W.

Thanks, Wolfgang

 

[vixens]

ok, I made a little progress.

1. I modified the sat dish with a new bottom arm and lowered the side arms. This will give me more space to move the lnb back, forward, up and down and later attach an LNB mount/holder for other lnbs.

2. Then I mounted the old standard lnb (Eagle, DTV 32) again
(settings: round dish) and made sure that I got the same strong readings as I had before. This worked fine: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sE-R6bdRZVI

3. I change the lnb on the sat dish to a slimline-3 lnb, gave it an approx. skew, tuned signals up to max. on 101W, attached the two b-band converters to the receiver and change settings at the receiver to slimline-3/multiswitch.



Secretly i was hope hoping to get a small bite for 99/103W but I did not:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=39XzGJLJxDc
Quite the opposite, I lost the weakest transponders (all uneven) even though the other, strong transponders still give me about the same levels in the 80s and 90s.
(the attention is on the second column from the right (tp 7, 15, 23, 31) and also the 3rd column from the left (tp 3, 11, 19,27). They were in the high 50s to low 60s but are gone with the Slimline-3)

The first readings were done around 11 am. The readings with the Slimline-3 were done at 4pm.
ESPN and ESPN2 were among the lost channels. I have noticed that these 2 channels with the standard lnb that these 2 channels start pixalating towards the evening; sometimes even shortly failing.

Therefore I have to see what the Slimline-3 readings will be tomorrow morning. As far as I have noticed: the HR22 receiver will only show readings of 55 and higher.

I have to point out the inwards pointing outer LNBs (99W, 103W) on the perfectly working set-up from that neighbor.



Even though you would imagine that the horizontal and vertical distances between the 3 lnbs should be the same; the picture proofs otherwise.


I will be very happy if you have any comments and ideas.
Thanks,

 

[vixens]

ok, I am back in business with a standard Directv lnb.
With the Hawaii-Alaska Slimline-3 LNB I was able to get some readings on the but clearly under 60 for the weak odd tps. . . 60 seems to be the number to lock in.

Now I am working on a bracket to hold 2 more LNBs for 99W and 103W to accomplish this:



thanks !

 

[Rafaelccs]

I made some research and found a store in Mexico that claims they sell the set up; probably the tech guy from Mexico that charged $8,500 bought the goods from them??
I guess the thing works well in Mexico, deeper in fringe who knows?

Anyhow here's the link:

http://www.cp-electronics.com/eng/proddetail.php?prod=DIRECTV-LNB-KIT&cat=19

They sell the kit for aprox. US$230

I must insist that I am not posting this will work, I personally haven't done any test yet.....
Running tests will always require to waste money in research....

?Good Luck!!!

 

[Rafaelccs]

One other thing that is wrong from my point of view is that those brackets from your picture taken at your friend's set up.....
Don't look like they are well located, offset fed antennas have a optimal focal point as does Prime Focus antennas,
believe it or not an offset fed antenna is the most efficient area of a larger prime focus antenna, therefore you may imagine,
that both might have several focal points and they do, you can aim several satellites from a single dish like these:

View attachment 90359

But not all will take the full surface or gain, but smaller sub sections with lower gain, all easily achieved, when in the footprint like the picture I linked above,
the guy can't be in fringe to get those many satellites with such a small dish.

If you see in detail from your own pictures, you'll see that none of the LNBF's is located in the original antenna's focal point, in other words,
the main Lnbf (101 W) should be resting in it's original bracket, and the other ones should be tilted near it, they could be separated by 3 or 4 inches,
but the pivot has to be in the main lnbf bracket or antenna feed, otherwise he's using a smaller portion of it.
If the feed struts are in the way you must design a mechanism to locate the main Lnbf in the antenna's original focal point.

?If working.....

 

[texasbrit]

Base on the description, the LNB kit is designed to solve the problems we identified earlier. The key features are:
- a separate LNB for 99 (they have modified the internal LNB electronics to do this)
- combining the 99 and 101 signals before they get to the multiswitch
You do need the special bracket they list (it's out of stock right now) so you can get the LNBs in the correct position relative to each other. They explain how to do this.

This is probably your only hope of making this work. For the reasons I posted before, using any sort of standard LNB for 99 will NOT work.

 

[Rafaelccs]

Base on the description, the LNB kit is designed to solve the problems we identified earlier. The key features are:
- a separate LNB for 99 (they have modified the internal LNB electronics to do this)
- combining the 99 and 101 signals before they get to the multiswitch
You do need the special bracket they list (it's out of stock right now) so you can get the LNBs in the correct position relative to each other. They explain how to do this.

This is probably your only hope of making this work. For the reasons I posted before, using any sort of standard LNB for 99 will NOT work.

If you read my previuos earlier post, I explained the frequency plan Directv uses, they combine 99w with 101w using a different frequency than regularly done (L band), in other words, 101 w uses 950 MHz to 1450 MHz (18 & 13 VDC) & lo ka out of 99 w 250 MHz to 750 MHz (vhf - uhf or CATV) a simple diplxer does the job, but in this case their diplexer has dual power pass, you don't need to variate any thing inside any lnbf, you are simply extracting out of the sl3 that portion (catv) and powering it with the dual power pass ports, diplexors work both ways combining and de-combining.

What is missing is the Hi-ka (1650 MHz to 2150 MHz); this combination enters sat A or 0 KHz tone port 18/13 VDC and 103w easly only works out of port Sat B or 22 KHz tone 18/13 VDC.

once again this is easy to understand, but the difficult task is using the correct feed Ka portion and getting the most out of the dish because sl3 has triple feed inside, also aiming correctly if any chance to get some Ka spill over this is where the task gets difficult, all electronics are available.

I even believe that there is a dual power pass diplexer made by perfect vision, it seems to be discontinued but there might be some stock arround.....

 

[vixens]

- a separate LNB for 99 (they have modified the internal LNB electronics to do this)

I do not think that the ku lnbs are modified. I looked at them; there is no sign of entry at all.

Rafael's explanation does give me hope. I already ordered the dual power diplexer; thanks Raf. Now that set-up makes more sense.


Q: I am not sure why there would be an inline amps on 2 of the six (6) cables; both outlets from the standard Ku lnb 101W seem to have the inline amp.
Could that be because of the low signal for odd tps on 101W or is this something else?

Here is what I observed and photographed:
Non SWM lnbs for Ka band.
The right Ka lnb 103W (seen from behind the dish) is combined with the Ku 101W and the 101W has an inline amp before it is combined and hits the switch. The other Ku lnb 99W goes straight into the 99/101 inlets of the switch.
Every LNB uses two cables to the switch.
Two exits from the switch go to 2 receivers HR24 SWM. One receiver has the power amplifier which comes with the 6x8 SWM switch.

I should be able to copy his set-up but I might not find the Ka signals without the AIM meter. I guess all the other meters will not even react to KA. Right ?
First i will try to find a KA signal by just using the receiver's sat signal meter.

My other problem will be that his set-up uses a SWM switch and 21V power amp near the HR24 (but strangely enough Slimline (non-SWM) LNBs).
I have an HR22 . . . which does not do SWM, so I believe.
Any idea ?
Can anyone point out a thread or website with diagrams so I can learn SWM and non SWM set-up options ?

The guy is still on vacation. I am looking forward to filming and posting his tp reception for all 3 sats.
Please let me know your thoughts.

Thanks

 

[texasbrit]

Let me quote from the ad


" LNB for Sat 99: DirecTV SL3 Modified for receiving only 99. Fine tuned for receiving only 99 and power efficient." If you don't modify the LNB so it does not receive 101. the 101 signals (even if the signal strength is zero) will screw with the real 101 signals coming from the center LNB.

The HR22 will work fine with an SWM8 multiswitch. You can't use SWM LNBs for this setup, they have to be non-SWM, connected as per the diagram to a multiswitch. WB68 or SWM8.