Star Trek Discovery

Zookster

Zookster

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The Star Trek franchise has been prescient about a number of things over the decades. Just sayin'.

Not sure what galaxy-ending calamity they'll be able to come up with for season 5. In season 2, we had a rogue AI ending all life, and this time a super-advanced species outside the galaxy inadvertently threating all life (given time) in the galaxy.

My biggest issue with the finale was that...
I thought Book got off too lightly. When at first it seemed as though he got killed off, I told myself there was nothing left for the character anyway since he'd be spending the rest of his days in prison, so might as well make him a major character death this season. But no. I'm all for restorative justice, but he was basically an intergalactic terrorist (regardless of "reasons") whose actions could've ended of all life in the galaxy either because the 10C retaliated or taking out the DMA power source led to ripples of galaxy-wide destruction.

Lastly, seeing Tilly only reinforced for me how much better the back-half of the season has been without her, while bringing back Jett Reno made it so much better. I don't dislike Tilly's character as much as I disliked how overused she was, being put in situations much better suited to more experienced bridge officers/engineers/security team.
 
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KAB

KAB

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Well I enjoyed it anyhow, including the surprise guest appearance. Once I overcame the numerous anachronisms (most notably the spore drive), and the endless stories where only Burnham can fix impending doom, and doom nowadays extending to the entire galaxy, it's easy to enjoy.
You're easier to overcome than I am.;)
 
TheKrell

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You're easier to overcome than I am.;)
Did you burp over the spore drive as I did? I was outraged because this vastly superior technology was nowhere to be seen in TOS. And that gargantuan interdimensional Tardigrade that eats spores was just plain absurd. What hack dreamed up those things?
Not sure what galaxy-ending calamity they'll be able to come up with for season 5. In season 2, we had a rogue AI ending all life, and this time a super-advanced species outside the galaxy inadvertently threating all life (given time) in the galaxy.
Yeah, I'm not either.

BTW - you left out The Burn. I suppose The Burn was a rather significant problem to overcome, though not for a starship with a spore drive. But it wasn't "galaxy-ending", so I get your point.
 
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Zookster

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Did you burp over the spore drive as I did? I was outraged because this vastly superior technology was nowhere to be seen in TOS. And that gargantuan interdimensional Tardigrade that eats spores was just plain absurd. What hack dreamed up those things?

Yeah, I'm not either.

BTW - you left out The Burn. I suppose The Burn was a rather significant problem to overcome, though not for a starship with a spore drive. But it wasn't "galaxy-ending", so I get your point.
You may be right. I couldn't remember for certain, but toward the end of season 3, I think if the Kelpian kid didn't get it under control, it would've been the Burn on steroids.
 
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long_time_DNC

long_time_DNC

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Well, that was an utter waste of time.

Put the galaxy in a dire situation that only Burnham and her crew can fix (maybe) and then turn the entirety of part 2 of the season finale into a totally politically-correct woke-fest of love, joy, peace and happiness where even the damage the 10C caused to subspace was being repaired by them.

Hell, why didn't the 10C just reverse time and bring back Kwejian while they were fixing stuff...sheesh!
 
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TheKrell

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Put the galaxy in a dire situation that only Burnham and her crew can fix (maybe) and then turn the entirety of part 2 of the season finale into a totally politically-correct woke-fest of love, joy, peace and happiness where even the damage the 10C caused to subspace was being repaired by them.
While I agree that peace, love, and understanding triumphed in that last episode, and also that this rarely if ever happens in real life, I do not agree with your making this political statement involving the God-awful word, "Woke". Who dreamed up that word?

Is "peace, love, and understanding" political to you? It isn't to me. The appearance of Stacy Abrams doesn't make STD "woke" all of a sudden, unless she makes political statements in her dialog, which I did not hear. Did you hear anything that was political from her? Maybe I missed something.
 
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SamCdbs

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Oh, come on.

The point, leaving out the gross political commentary, is that this woke meaninglessness just isn't what Star Trek is about. This crew, uniquely in the world just doesn't get it. There are probably 1000 production teams around the world who do get it and could make proper Star Trek. We get this.

It is pretty clear to me that this crew was told "more action" and THIS is what they came up with. THIS. Rather than, well, more action. A long, slow moving, and unrealistic screed about feelings. Unrealistic, even by sci-fi standards, from the start, with a unrealistic ending.

With extra woke politics tossed in.

The sad part is that there is such a thirst for sci-fi in general and Star Trek in specific and it is so hard to get and keep good sci-fi in production, and they are giving this crew unlimited $$ and apparently unlimited years to do this.
 
reubenray

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With the add on of Stacey Abrams this one may be one I don't watch anymore. I have been putting up with the wokeness, but this may be the last straw.
 
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TheKrell

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It is pretty clear to me that this crew was told "more action" and THIS is what they came up with. THIS. Rather than, well, more action. A long, slow moving, and unrealistic screed about feelings. Unrealistic, even by sci-fi standards, from the start, with a unrealistic ending.
Well, Sam, I have to agree with that paragraph, but your political opinions are not a proper subject for this forum.
With the add on of Stacey Abrams this one may be one I don't watch anymore. I have been putting up with the wokeness, but this may be the last straw.
Anybody who slings that term around is being hyper partisan and political. Take it to The Pit please where I can respond with what I really think.
 
Ronnie-

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Guys, leave the politics out of it.

If you think anyone cares about your political leanings, take it to the section that’s for that.
 
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Foxbat

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I’ll just toss this in without too much fuss, I hope. Star Trek has always been a forum for progressive ideas and concepts. The episode tackling Racism in TOS “He’s Black on his left side; I’m Black on my Right Side” to TNGs many episodes exploring Sexual Identity (Crusher’s love interest with the Trill whose host body is replaced with a different sex but the overall Being is the same), Star Trek has had this consistency from the beginning in the 1960s.

Science Fiction is more than just Ray Guns and Space Ships, it’s exploring how Individuals are impacted by this Technology and the interactions between different Cultures.
 
Zookster

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I’ll just toss this in without too much fuss, I hope. Star Trek has always been a forum for progressive ideas and concepts. The episode tackling Racism in TOS “He’s Black on his left side; I’m Black on my Right Side” to TNGs many episodes exploring Sexual Identity (Crusher’s love interest with the Trill whose host body is replaced with a different sex but the overall Being is the same), Star Trek has had this consistency from the beginning in the 1960s.

Science Fiction is more than just Ray Guns and Space Ships, it’s exploring how Individuals are impacted by this Technology and the interactions between different Cultures.
Exactly. You can add to the list Riker falling in love with an androgynous (nonbinary) species in TNG. One of the first lesbian kisses on US TV on DS9. Of course the first interracial kiss on US TV in TOS. And efforts to make the crews of all series diverse and putting women and POC in positions of authority before it was mainstream. I laugh whenever anyone tries to disparage a show for being woke. LeVar Burton sums it up best.


View: https://twitter.com/levarburton/status/1398665992318844930
 
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long_time_DNC

long_time_DNC

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Yes, but where are episodes akin to "The Doomsday Machine", "The Ultimate Computer", "The Changeling", "The Corbomite Maneuver", "I, Mudd"...and that's just TOS. I haven't even listed any of the many terrific TNG, DS9, Voyager or Enterprise episodes that tend to be much more sci-fi than social-issues oriented. Discovery's writing team just can't seem to get past being social-issue oriented or emotionally-oriented for more than one episode per season. Granted, 13 episodes is a very short season compared to 20-24 episodes that shows used to run...but nevertheless, I would think they could drop the social/emotional ram just a little and give us a tad more sci-fi, even in a 13 episode season...
 
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Zookster

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Regarding the emotionally oriented aspect of prior series, TNG literally had an empathic therapist sitting on the bridge for every first contact with a new species/entity. The exchanges usually began along the lines of (for example): "Captain, I'm sensing no hostility here, just confusion and loneliness." Because having one councilor in a prominent bridge officer role wasn't enough, the show added the recurring character of Guinan for informal therapy sessions. Not to mention, I can't count the number of times a TNG episode either focused on or had a subplot involving Data learning about human nature and what it means to have feelings and emotions.

For the past half-century plus, sci-fi stories have often been used as a proxy for addressing real-world social issues (e.g., the oppression/mistreatment of one alien species by another representing various forms of class- or race-based oppression/discrimination/bias in our current society). If anyone is bothered by stories that touch on themes of social equality, representation, accepting of differences, etc., then sci-fi may not be for you.

Because more than half of the episodes of prior Star Trek series were episodic in nature, you could have a pure 45-minute sci-fi adventure-type story from time to time. Though if you watch closely, they too would often touch on bigger themes involving freedom, equality, self-determination, understanding and accepting the differences of other species, etc.
 
long_time_DNC

long_time_DNC

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Regarding the emotionally oriented aspect of prior series, TNG literally had an empathic therapist sitting on the bridge for every first contact with a new species/entity. The exchanges usually began along the lines of (for example): "Captain, I'm sensing no hostility here, just confusion and loneliness." Because having one councilor in a prominent bridge officer role wasn't enough, the show added the recurring character of Guinan for informal therapy sessions. Not to mention, I can't count the number of times a TNG episode either focused on or had a subplot involving Data learning about human nature and what it means to have feelings and emotions.

For the past half-century plus, sci-fi stories have often been used as a proxy for addressing real-world social issues (e.g., the oppression/mistreatment of one alien species by another representing various forms of class- or race-based oppression/discrimination/bias in our current society). If anyone is bothered by stories that touch on themes of social equality, representation, accepting of differences, etc., then sci-fi may not be for you.

Because more than half of the episodes of prior Star Trek series were episodic in nature, you could have a pure 45-minute sci-fi adventure-type story from time to time. Though if you watch closely, they too would often touch on bigger themes involving freedom, equality, self-determination, understanding and accepting the differences of other species, etc.
Yeah, ok, got your point. No problem. Did you get mine?
 
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SamCdbs

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To me, the difference between STD and all the other Star Trek versions relative to this issue is the difference between a jelly donut and jelly.

Can I point to plenty of social and political commentary in all versions of Star Trek? Sure. But this was contained within and a small part of each overall series and even the individual episode/movie. Within an overall framework of basic good science fiction and within the particular fictional universe of humanity’s future that is the basic vision of Star Trek. Its there, but it isn’t all that is there. But, strip away the emotion, the political and social commentary, and, yes, the condescension, from STD, and there is little left.
 
TheKrell

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