Newbie With Questions.

[VintageMale]

Gentlemen,
I’m a newbie to this new fangled FTV Satellite hobby and in dire need of help. Back in the day (1980-1985) I, by myself installed and maintained a 10’ mesh, prime focus, dish with both C and Ku LNBs. Everything worked great, so I have some experience.

Fast forward to today…
A couple of weeks ago I purchased all the pieces I thought I would need to install a 1 meter dish for the Ku band. I purchased them individually from eBay:

39 Inch Azure/Shine Satellite Dish with Tripod Mount International 36 33 (I don’t know)
Moteck SG-2100 Satellite Dish Motor
GEOSATpro QUAD Output LNB SL4 PLL Phase Lock Loop 10750 Linear Ku
Amiko Mini 4k UHD S2X H.265 HEVC FTA Receiver STB 2X
GTmedia V8 Satellite Finder 2 Meter DVB-S2/S2X

I have the pole planted and checked several times for plumb. I have the dish, LNBF, and motor mounted. I have not connected the Amiko receiver as I don’t have the satellite arc dialed in. I have been trying to decipher the GTmedia V8 Finder 2 meter functions. But there is no informative manual for that device. The “User Manual” only defines the displays and keys but says nothing about the functions or how to use them. I’ve watched several videos on the GTmedia meter. All the videos show how to take the device out of the box and describe it’s marvelous features. None tell you how to use the device or any of the actual functions of the displays and keys. I’ve watched videos of people using the meter but they only show bits and pieces of what they are setting up or looking at.

Does anyone know of a video, pdf, or document that tells how to use the GTmedia meter?

This “introduction” is a lot longer than I intended so I am going to post it now and I will post my questions, and I have several, on individual posts.

 

[VintageMale]

My next questions.
Here is my installation data from Dishpointer:

Your Location Satellite Data Dish Setup Data
Latitude: 33.0507° Name: True South / True North Motor Latitude: 33.1°
Longitude: -80.1428° Distance: 36986km Declination Angle: 5.4°
Dish Elevation: --°
Azimuth (true): 180.0°
Azimuth (magn.): 188.1°

So I’ve set the motor at 33.1° and the declination angle at 24.6 according to the SG2100 motor’s manual. I’m fighting with Mother Nature here as I have trees to the east and west of my backyard which restricts my view of available satellites. My estimate is that I can only view satellites between 210° and 230°. But I should be able to view something interesting on those satellites.
BTW, I tried locating SES 2 (80.1° W ) but I think the trees are blocking it.

My problem is finding the satellite arc. I move the dish to find a satellite in the non-obstructive space between the trees. The only satellite I can lock on is EchoStar 105/SES 11. But for some reason (operator error) the Gtmedia meter says I’m on Galaxy 18. I can lock in on VAKN channels all day, but I can’t see the rest of the arc. And I don't know how to correct the satellite name in the meter.

BTW, I get conflicting numbers from different satellite aiming programs/devices. The SG2100 manual has an entry (30° -declination angle) that looks like it was stamped in for this particular motor (Type II, 150mm arm). But in the table, in the back of the manual, at 33° the declination angle should be 5.4° and the Dish Bracket Angle should be 24.6°. If I subtract 5.4° from 33.1° I get 27.7° what gives here?

 

[comfortably_numb]

Have you tried locating satellites without the motor? Many hobbyists start with a fixed dish and add the motor later. I know I wouldn't have been able to work with a motor when I was just starting out. I used a 90cm fixed dish (and several other 76cm dishes) which I moved manually.

 

[VintageMale]

This particular part of the board is a place to discuss the website itself. I think you would be more likely to get an informed response in the FTA forum.

Sorry I thought I was posting under FTA. I'll try and repost there.

 

[FTA4PA]

My next questions.
Here is my installation data from Dishpointer:

Your Location Satellite Data Dish Setup Data
Latitude: 33.0507° Name: True South / True North Motor Latitude: 33.1°
Longitude: -80.1428° Distance: 36986km Declination Angle: 5.4°
Dish Elevation: --°
Azimuth (true): 180.0°
Azimuth (magn.): 188.1°

So I’ve set the motor at 33.1° and the declination angle at 24.6 according to the SG2100 motor’s manual. I’m fighting with Mother Nature here as I have trees to the east and west of my backyard which restricts my view of available satellites. My estimate is that I can only view satellites between 210° and 230°. But I should be able to view something interesting on those satellites.

BTW, I tried locating SES 2 (80.1° W ) but I think the trees are blocking it.

My problem is finding the satellite arc. I move the dish to find a satellite in the non-obstructive space between the trees. The only satellite I can lock on is EchoStar 105/SES 11. But for some reason (operator error) the Gtmedia meter says I’m on Galaxy 18. I can lock in on VAKN channels all day, but I can’t see the rest of the arc. And I don't know how to correct the satellite name in the meter.

BTW, I get conflicting numbers from different satellite aiming programs/devices. The SG2100 manual has an entry (30° -declination angle) that looks like it was stamped in for this particular motor (Type II, 150mm arm). But in the table, in the back of the manual, at 33° the declination angle should be 5.4° and the Dish Bracket Angle should be 24.6°. If I subtract 5.4° from 33.1° I get 27.7° what gives here?

Have you tried aiming your dish without the motor first? Starting out with a motor can be a bit overwhelming. Aiming at and locking a signal on one satellite without it will allow you to verify that your receiver, lnbf and wiring are correct and fully functional. Afterwards, move on to the motor install. Have you read this guide yet? If not, it is a very good resource to look through.

How to set up a Motorized KU Band dish

I composed this tutorial manual as a "How-To" for all FTA junkies to use to set up their small diameter Ku motorized dish antennas a few years ago. It is lengthy, but give it a read and see if it helps you with your endeavor. I think I put in some good information here. It is directed...

www.satelliteguys.us

 

[FTA4PA]

Have you tried locating satellites without the motor? Many hobbyists start with a fixed dish and add the motor later. I know I wouldn't have been able to work with a motor when I was just starting out. I used a 90cm fixed dish (and several other 76cm dishes) which I moved manually.

I see we are thinking alike on this. This thread has been jumping all over and did not see your post.

 

[KE4EST]

Thread has been jumping all over and did not see your post.

The OP started 3 threads at 3 different places, so I been trying to wrangle them all into one.

 

[KE4EST]

VintageMale, Welcome to SatelliteGuys!!!
Great place and you will find lots of helpful people here, but let's keep everything in this one thread. It will be much easier to follow and get you the quickest help. Posting all over the place will not get things done faster.

 

[FTA4PA]

The OP started 3 threads at 3 different places, so I been trying to wrangle them all into one.

Thanks! Once it is consolidated in one place maybe we can help them.

 

[VintageMale]

Have you tried aiming your dish without the motor first? Starting out with a motor can be a bit overwhelming. Aiming at and locking a signal on one satellite without it will allow you to verify that your receiver, lnbf and wiring are correct and fully functional. Afterwards, move on to the motor install. Have you read this guide yet? If not, it is a very good resource to look through.

How to set up a Motorized KU Band dish

I composed this tutorial manual as a "How-To" for all FTA junkies to use to set up their small diameter Ku motorized dish antennas a few years ago. It is lengthy, but give it a read and see if it helps you with your endeavor. I think I put in some good information here. It is directed...

www.satelliteguys.us

Yes, I downloaded and read that guide yesterday.
I have locked on to Echostar 105 and watched the VAKN feeds on the GTmedia V8 Finder 2. So I know everything works. But I can't seem to find any other satellites (the satellite arc). I'm pretty sure it's not the azimuth settings. I'm using USALS (auto) and DiSEqC1.2 (manually).

I think it's the calculated elevation that's all wrong. I've tried to set the elevation with an incline tool (similar to pic below). It has a magnet on one side so I attach it to the face of the dish and set the elevation. Still no results.

Also with me it seems that my learning curve for the GTmedia V8 Finder 2 is a straight horizontal line. With an offset LNB I'm not sure which surface of the dish reflects the signal to to the LNBF.

Many thanks for your input.

 

[VintageMale]

Thanks! Once it is consolidated in one place maybe we can help them.

Sorry for my confusion. I'll try better to put my posts where they belong.

 

[FTA4PA]

Yes, I downloaded and read that guide yesterday.
I have locked on to Echostar 105 and watched the VAKN feeds on the GTmedia V8 Finder 2. So I know everything works. But I can't seem to find any other satellites (the satellite arc). I'm pretty sure it's not the azimuth settings. I'm using USALS (auto) and DiSEqC1.2 (manually).

I think it's the calculated elevation that's all wrong. I've tried to set the elevation with an incline tool (similar to pic below). It has a magnet on one side so I attach it to the face of the dish and set the elevation. Still no results.

Also with me it seems that my learning curve for the GTmedia V8 Finder 2 is a straight horizontal line. With an offset LNB I'm not sure which surface of the dish reflects the signal to to the LNBF.

Many thanks for your input.

View attachment 161387

You verified your mast is plumb so you should be able to rule that out.

Things to verify:

Dish is assembled correctly and dish/motor assembly is in straight line?
Motor elevation is correctly set?
Dish elevation is correctly set?
Complete motor assembly is rotated on mast to due south?
Latitude and longitude are correct in your receiver?

Once all are verified use USALS (not disqec positioning) in your receiver to motor over to a satelite. Adjust dish elevation and azimuth (whole motor assembly) until signal is peaked for that satellite. Tighten down.

Once this is done you should simply be able to select any satellite with USALS and the receiver will give the command to the motor and it will move there so you can scan/watch channels.

 

[a33]

BTW, I get conflicting numbers from different satellite aiming programs/devices. The SG2100 manual has an entry (30° -declination angle) that looks like it was stamped in for this particular motor (Type II, 150mm arm). But in the table, in the back of the manual, at 33° the declination angle should be 5.4° and the Dish Bracket Angle should be 24.6°. If I subtract 5.4° from 33.1° I get 27.7° what gives here?

(30 - dish declination offset angle) is correct, the 30 is for the actual bend angle in the motor axis tube.
Motor latitude should be at 33.1 or 33.05 at the latitude scale, according to your information; meaning 56.95 at the motor elevation scale. Dish elevation scale at 30-5.4 is indeed 24.6.

(I would use the so-called modified motor angles, which are slightly better: motor axis elevation 56.3, dish elevation scale 25.2 [so both values altered with 0.6 degrees] .)


Since you had already reception, I'm not against "starting" with a motor setup. It's just that the (our) instructions should be very precise and systematic, and you following procedure very accurately, that is needed then. Not always easy.


(Partly overlapping with other posts/posters

- So your pole is plumb.
- Does the motor stop at exactly zero of the motor tube, when given that instruction? (And/or goto satellite position -80.14, when using USALS. Does it stop at motor tube position zero then?)
- At that position, are the motor, dish and LNB-arm exactly in line with each other?
- Now are the motor axis angle and dish elevation angle set as indicated above?
- Are you aiming globally to about south, now?
- Now move the motor to echostar 105 (which you received before) with your receiver/USALS. When you don't get it, move/rotate the whole motor setup around the pole, till you do.

If you cannot find 105 this way, something about your angles is definitely not OK. You'll have to start all over again, checking and verifying each step.

Greetz,
A33

 

[VintageMale]

(30 - dish declination offset angle) is correct, the 30 is for the actual bend angle in the motor axis tube.
Motor latitude should be at 33.1 or 33.05 at the latitude scale, according to your information; meaning 56.95 at the motor elevation scale. Dish elevation scale at 30-5.4 is indeed 24.6.

(I would use the so-called modified motor angles, which are slightly better: motor axis elevation 56.3, dish elevation scale 25.2 [so both values altered with 0.6 degrees] .)


Since you had already reception, I'm not against "starting" with a motor setup. It's just that the (our) instructions should be very precise and systematic, and you following procedure very accurately, that is needed then. Not always easy.


(Partly overlapping with other posts/posters

- So your pole is plumb.
- Does the motor stop at exactly zero of the motor tube, when given that instruction? (And/or goto satellite position -80.14, when using USALS. Does it stop at motor tube position zero then?)
- At that position, are the motor, dish and LNB-arm exactly in line with each other?
- Now are the motor axis angle and dish elevation angle set as indicated above?
- Are you aiming globally to about south, now?
- Now move the motor to echostar 105 (which you received before) with your receiver/USALS. When you don't get it, move/rotate the whole motor setup around the pole, till you do.

If you cannot find 105 this way, something about your angles is definitely not OK. You'll have to start all over again, checking and verifying each step.

Greetz,
A33

Does the motor stop at exactly zero of the motor tube, when given that instruction? YES
And YES when I goto -80.14 the motor reads "0".

Today I'll set the angles you outlined and then do the echostar 105
and see what happens.

One other thing I've run into. I can't find a current list of active satellites. I do use Dishpointer and Lyngsat. I'm assuming they are as current as possible.

 

[a33]

Does the motor stop at exactly zero of the motor tube, when given that instruction? YES
And YES when I goto -80.14 the motor reads "0".

That is excellent, and needed for the use of USALS.
We'll look forward to your further reports!

greetz,
A33

 

[arlo]

Sorry. Don't pay too much attention. The other guys are handling it quite well.
The tvrosat.com sat. charts stay pretty updated. A photo of the sky from the back of your dish would help understanding your tree issue.
You say you can get 105W good but lose tracking for other satellites.
103W is it's neighbor and has ku transponders. 101W is out, c band only on that.
99.2W would be next and has strong transponders. This keeps your arc search to a narrow area.
As you sweep east from 105, the dish will move left looking at the sky from the rear of it.
It will also aim higher in the sky. The highest point being when the motor shows 0. Past 0 it starts going lower.
Cool. 2 degrees is very little travel.
You know where 105W is. Sharpie pen your mount settings for a way back home. Get the dish pointed to where 103 is supposed to be. Get your finder tuned to a tp on it.
Assuming you have no signal, try moving the dish very slightly left and right, up and down.
See if you can get the meter to snag a signal. It should give you an idea of how the geometry is behaving.
And if you can get it tweaked in to get those 2 satellites with the motor, move on to 99.2W. You'll get it.
I do have to add. Your angle gauge is nice but a digital is really nice. My 'depot Klein works like a peach down to .1 deg
.
Offset dishes can be a bear to understand if you haven't dealt with them or don't have offset angles.
Some have compensation angles stamped in the bracket, some don't.
Let's say you have the dish face aimed at the horizon with a string running dead center from the top to the bottom of it on the dish rim.
You should be plumb and measure 0 degrees on the string. Look at the stamping. Is it 0 also? As you tilt back from the horizon, the stamping angles increase.
But your lnb was already "shooting" up in the sky at 0 degrees. That's your offset angle.
If the string was at zero but the stamping read something like 20 degrees. Then your day got easier because the offset angle was already calculated in for you.
Make sense?
Declination offset angle is the fact that even though you correctly track an arc in the sky, your satellites are parked out the in space over the equator. So in the northern hemisphere you need to dip the dish down a touch to "see" them or you would track over the tops of them.
Not so sure if your motor has that already factored into the design. Yes? Read the manuals of course.
I looked at the SG2100 easy guide and it indicates you do need to set declination on the dish that's mounted to it.
Drew a blank on the dish manual.

 

[a33]

Today I'll set the angles you outlined and then do the echostar 105
and see what happens.

Any progress?

 

[VintageMale]

Hello again and yes I’m still trying to align my new dish.

One quick compliant: Why do references give decimal points in literature, etc., but, unless you spend a lot more money most markings are 1 or 2 units of measure? Example: the degrees on my dish’s inclination marking are 2 degrees each, not .1 degrees.

Here are my statistics.

My Location
Latitude: 33.0507°
Longitude: -80.1428°

My Dish Motor Data
Name: Moteck SG2100
Distance: 36986km

My True South Dish Setup Data
Motor Latitude: 33.1°
Declination Angle: 5.4°
Dish Elevation: 25°
Azimuth (true): 180.0°
Azimuth (magn.): 188.1°

My dish:
Make: Azure-Shine (Same brand sold by Geosat)
Dia: 36” x 39”
Offset Focus

I finally got a phone that allows me, using a dish finder app, to see the satellite arc from my dish’s position. Because of the trees in my neighbor’s yards I find I can see the part of the arc between satellites G-17 and Anik F3. The trees block everything else.

I’ve checked the metal pole for plumb in all four directions with 3 different inclinometers, all seems good. I installed the motor and set the motor latitude for 33 degrees (My latitude). The motor model I have is the “Type II” from Moteck (42mm dia. x 150mm downward tube) With no dish attached, I’ve done my best to align the downward tube at 188 degrees azimuth. Magnetic deviation at my location is 8.1 degrees (180+8.1=188.1).

Here’s the confusion part.

Next I set the declination… well almost. The motor’s user manual(?) say for my latitude (33 degrees N) says the elevation angle should be “57 degrees”. I’m assuming that’s if one wants to use the adjustment using the markings on the right side (from the rear) of the dish mount. Next the User manual says the declination angle is 5.4 degrees. And then, I’m assuming they did the math, the “Dish Bracket Angle” should be 24.6 degrees.

Ok, I set the dish bracket angle at about 24-25 degrees. That’s because each mark on the bracket represents 2 degrees). Here again I’m assuming all those numbers are required because of the way the motor (arm) was manufactured. The reason I’m questioning the numbers is because if I subtract the declination angle from my latitude, I get 27.7 degrees. (33.1-5.4=27.2).

I’ve tried all the setting I’ve outlined here to no avail.

My next question is where on the dish should I measure the elevation when trying to focus on the arc using an inclinometer?

Also when I use dishpointer or any app like that and it says the elevation is 49.8 degrees (G-17 from me), because of the motor, do I need to add or subtract the 5.4 degrees from the listed elevation?

Just to prove that even a blind squirrel finds a nut sometimes. I have located usually a lone satellite i.e., I lock in on one and can’t find any others. Frustrating...

O yes, one more item. I noticed that in the dishpointer data I included above that dishpointer says that when aiming due south the dish elevation should be 25 degrees above the horizon. Is there a reason for that?

This has been a pretty long post so I’ll stop now. But I'm still trying to get this system to work.

 

[VintageMale]

O yea, I forgot to mention in my previous post.

I marked my true south positioning on the pole and bracket.

I am using USALS for azimuth positioning with my GTMEDIA V8 Finder 2. And when I select “GOTO X” (in my case I select “Reference” from the drop down menu) the motor returns to the zero (0) position every time.

 

[a33]

By the way. This is a follow-up thread to Newbie With Questions.

@moderators: I would suggest to combine these two threads again, as it is still about the same situation....?

The reason I’m questioning the numbers is because if I subtract the declination angle from my latitude, I get 27.7 degrees. (33.1-5.4=27.2).

Motor elevation 57 degrees minus dish declination offset 5.4 degrees = Elevation angle for the clarke belt due south 51.6 degrees.

Identical calculation: Latitude 33 degrees plus dish declination offset 5.4 degrees = total declination due south of 38.4 degrees, which is equivalent (90 - 38.4) to elevation 51.6.
(declination means the opposite direction to elevation.)



To continue from my previous post:

- So your pole is plumb. YES
- Does the motor stop at exactly zero of the motor tube, when given that instruction? YES
(And/or goto satellite position -80.14, when using USALS. Does it stop at motor tube position zero then?) YES
- At that position, are the motor, dish and LNB-arm exactly in line with each other? Is that the case?
- Now are the motor axis angle and dish elevation angle set as indicated above? I assume you did do that?
- Are you aiming globally to about south, now? I think that you found the about south direction, according to your posts?
- Now move the motor to echostar 105 (which you received before) with your receiver/USALS. When you don't get it, move/rotate the whole motor setup around the pole, till you do.

When this keeps causing problems, some photographs might help: from the motor elevation scale, the dish elevation scale, whole setup from the side.

Greetz,
A33