WOW Factor Spreadsheets

[Vicki]

Ilya, I was composing a reply to Bryan when your message posted, so I haven't had time to read it yet. Got to the "solving two and speculating" part, and decided I better print it out and study the speculation before I reply. Will try to be quick, but I'm still on a dial-up connection and my computer is very slow...actually so am I!

Thanks,

Vicki

 

[Vicki]

What you probably do not realize is that EMM Providers and Authorization Status values are for satellite channels, not for OTA.
You're absolutely right! Thanks for explanation. I tested it out thoroughly, and got exactly the results you described.

The third issue (0 SNR), is most likely a result of a glitch in the STB software. Rebooting the STB might be able to fix this, if you are willing to try.Still pondering on that--I just hate the possibility of going back to what I had before Thursday, but in the interests of science, I will probably try it because I was already thinking about swapping the two boxes, but again, just can't bear the thought of going backward! The bedroom set has high numbers for SNR and the picture is pretty poor, but I figured that was just because it's an old 20" SD set. Although the picture I had on it on anlog cable was better than what I have now most of the time. I don't understand about the SNR, because someone else told me higher is better, and if that's true, how I can have a great picture when all my channels show 0.00?

The PQ improvement is the most interesting of your issues. It may or may not be related to other issues you described. Although we cannot exclude the possibility that some glitch in the STB somehow improved the PQ, we should consider other possibilities too. Without knowing all the details I can only speculate, but here are some possible explanations:

Is it possible, that what you are seeing now is real HD, and what you saw before was not? I don't think so, unless someone forgot to throw the switch. My TV shows me when it's 1080i or 480i, and I've seen it correctly change when I go from a program I know is HD to one that is not. That is, unless NBC (my 3.1) RCA Championship finals and CBS (my 13.1) Golf is not in HD right now, because when I was checking out the EMM stuff it shows NBC and CBS as 1080i and it sure looked HD to me, both were pillar boxed. When I switched to my 13.2 NBC, it was the same golf game, it was 480i, full screen, and PQ was excellent, but not like on 13.1! I don't think I'm hallucinating, and I haven't hit the bottle yet today, so I'm pretty sure it was HD

1. HD OTA stations show upconverted SD material most of the time, and only show true HD during prime time (at least, this is how my local stations do it). In addition, every once in awhile they forget to flip the switch and show HD programs in upconverted SD. I watched Jay Leno in SD a couple of times because of that.

2. Is it possible that your TV set was in some different mode before and was not showing the best possible picture? I haven't changed any of the settings on the TV.

3. Are you sure you were not using the wrong input (e.g. composite instead of DVI or component? Now that may be a possibility...when my first El Jerko installer finally got a picture up, there was a message on my screen "Check connections or power. The connections for RGBHV or YPrPb may be invalid." When I asked him what that was all about, he said "You'll have to figure that out yourself, I can't keep track of all the TVs in the world." He said he hooked up the DVI and the component connections, and I'd just have to work that out myself. The message would eventually go away, but when I changed channels, it would come back. Before I had a chance to dig out my Owner's Manual for my Mitsubishi 48513, it stopped coming. But since Thursday it has started popping up again (the blue screen notes are when I get that message. However, the blue screen started coming up before the WOW factor set in, and they're still here.)

4. Which resolution mode is your STB set to? Native And which resolution has it been set to before? I think I had it on 1080i before I rebooted it 7/19--the day everyone was having problems with TNT HD, I think.

5. You didn't mention which TV set you have. Most of CRT-based displays are unable to display 720p. Mine doen't. Some of them down-convert 720p to lower resolutions. In such case, switching to 1080i could give you a WOW factor.

6. Maybe there was something wrong with the STB before, but now it has improved. I'm convinced that anything is possible!

By the way, since you have two STBs, if you want to try something, you can switch them to see if there is a difference in PQ between the two.

Thanks for all the help so far. I sure appreciate everyone helping me dig into this. I'll hold off a while to see if this additional info gives anyone some ideas for what else I should check, but I'll probably go ahead and try swapping the boxes...reluctantly! Guess I won't cancel the antenna upgrade appointment either, in case my good fortune really is just a fluke!

Vicki

 

[Vicki]

Okay...now I'm getting REALLY confused!

Decided I'd try switching the boxes, but wanted to record exactly where each box stood while tuned to the same channel before the switch so I could compare to after the switch.

Box in family room had Signal Quality 94, Satellite Signal Power 68/SNR 14, about the same as it has been running for the last 3 days.

Box in bedroom had Signal Quality 99, Satellite Signal Power 100/NaN Not a typo!! :shocked :shocked When I tried changing channels, The Terminator was on 100 instead of HD News, and he was also on 122 or whatever Monster's number is. Picture was better than I've ever seen on that old set though! Since Terminator was just starting, my head was hurting from all this, and I didn't even want to think about this new issue, I unplugged the box and went in to watch Arnie--secretly hoping that the Signal Quality & Power would show up in the family room, too!

I had done a soft reboot on the bedroom set Friday, and it had Signal Quality 92-94, Satellite Signal Power 44-45/SNR 13-14 at that time.

Got Arnie on the family room set (but only on his own channel, not on 100. checked the status and it was about the same as before, so I'm really wondering why the bedroom set was 99 SQ and 100 SSP, not to mention that pesky NaN.

Anyway, after Arnie died, I plugged in the bedroom STB. HD News is back where it belongs, but I'm getting Signal Quality 94, Satellite Signal Power 34/SNR 13-14. Picture was still pretty good, but not as good as before. Rechecked family room, it;s numbers were still same as before.

Now if they are both hooked to the same dish, why would the Signal Power be so different? And can anyone decipher what that NaN was all about?

I SWEAR I'm not:

1. Making this stuff up; or
2. Delusional; or
3. Drinking!

But come to think of it, I believe #3 is in order along about now! Any wisdom for me, and under these circumstances, do you still recommend swapping the boxes?

Vicki

 

[Ilya]

Not sure about your strange signal numbers, but I think I know why you are getting blue screen on some of the OTA channels: your STB is set to Native mode and those channels might be 720p channels. According to the manual, your TV set cannot handle 720p. Try switching the STB to 1080i.

 

[TechCop]

The Case of the Unexplained WOW Factor...

OK, Vicki, I can't take it any longer! I've put together a spreadsheet to try and crack this case, but there are two questions I need answered before I can make any conclusions:

1) Do you wear contact lenses, and if you do, is the prescription different in each eye?
2) Was this month's bill from the winery unusually large? :shocked

Suggested Course of Action: Order up some more wine, kick back and enjoy the WOW! (Either that or watch Monk on USA network, you may have a new hero!)

Cheers!

 

[vurbano]

I'll believe it when I see it, I have yet to see the WOW factor on any VOOM channel. The closest that came to it for me was The Grid on TNTHD, close but no cigar. I haven't watched any Voom since then, so I'll have to check it out someday.

Since I have my daughter for vacation this week, I probably won't watch a thing, so if things are improving, maybe when I tune back in next week, it will be even better.

FWIW, I've noticed PQ on HDNET Movies going downhill lately, I think Dish is gearing up to add 3 channels/transponder. They've already done it with several channels. It's not good, folks, it really mucks things up.

This thread is really sad IMO. Amusing too. a spreadsheet on the WOW factor on Voom channels. LMAO. 19 mbps OTA is WOW folks. (voom doesnt have it, no one does on sat i think). Next is HDnet on Dish, 17-18mbps? Voom doesnt have any of that either.

Guess what, MBPS is directly proportional to picture QUALITY and DETAIL! DO you see the pores of peoples skin on all the channels? Voom is running an average of 12mbps, there is no "WOW" except on the very slow moving HDnews channel. The weather maps and hosts are awesome.

The really sad thing is that multicasting is destroying the OTA bitrate and dish is shoving 3 HD channels per transponder. Voom may benefit from the watering down this creates. What a sad state this is

 

[TechCop]

Everything is relative...

a spreadsheet on the WOW factor on Voom channels when the creator hasnt seen it and couldnt know what it is...(

You know what WOW is for you.

I know what WOW is for me.

Let the lady have her own WOW!

 

[Dvlos]

This weekend I noticed some really bad PQ problems going on from time to time, Sunday morning PQ was good, then in the afternoon it went downhill, then it was nice again. I was watching the Winter Olympics on BravoHD is what I am using as a reference. PBS in my area is pretty bad, I think they have the lowest clarity of any of the HD channels. I'm not sure if it was Saturday or Friday but I watched "Namibia" on Equator and they were interviewing this African dude and it looked like his chest was swirling the mosaic noise was so bad.

 

[vurbano]

You know what WOW is for you.

I know what WOW is for me.

Let the lady have her own WOW!

Once you do that, you are on your way to "HDlite". Its sad because HD is still young. Not that many sets out there and the stations are already multicasting. What will happen is that the large majority of people will not complain about bandwidth because the 19.3 mbps will be gone before most ever see it. I lost it on PBS, and recently on ABC (was 19 now is 14), My CBS affialiate and NBC affiliate havent destroyed their signal yet, but its coming. Soon the masses will know nothing better than 14mbps HD.

 

[Indy]

Conclusion: WOW! is in the eye of the beholder.

 

[FunkyBoss]

...Box in bedroom had Signal Quality 99, Satellite Signal Power 100/NaN Not a typo!! :shocked :shocked When I tried changing channels, The Terminator was on 100 instead of HD News, and he was also on 122 or whatever Monster's number is...
Vicki

I have seen this about once a week lately. Out of nowhere the STB starts acting goofy and the signal numbers get all whacked out just like you posted here. And the channels get all mixed up too.

I always then know it's time to reboot. After a reboot, all is fine again. When this happens, I can't say that I have ever notice a PQ difference between when the box is acting "goofy" and when it is "normal" again.

 

[Conjuror]

Once you do that, you are on your way to "HDlite". Its sad because HD is still young. Not that many sets out there and the stations are already multicasting. What will happen is that the large majority of people will not complain about bandwidth because the 19.3 mbps will be gone before most ever see it. I lost it on PBS, and recently on ABC (was 19 now is 14), My CBS affialiate and NBC affiliate havent destroyed their signal yet, but its coming. Soon the masses will know nothing better than 14mbps HD.

Sad but true. However, our hope may be blue laser DVD and HD camcorders. If they deliver better HD picture than DBS and cable, I will certainly drop both and just watch HD DVDs, home made HD porn movies , and free OTA. I swear that is what I am going to do if HD DVD and HD camcorders will give me better PQ.

 

[Vicki]

Not sure about your strange signal numbers, but I think I know why you are getting blue screen on some of the OTA channels: your STB is set to Native mode and those channels might be 720p channels. According to the manual, your TV set cannot handle 720p. Try switching the STB to 1080i.

Thanks for all your helpful suggestions. Changing to 1080i did get rid of the blue screen!!! Don't notice much difference in PQ, :shocked but at least now I can get those blue screen channels!

I thought it was supposed to be able to up-convert 720p to 1080I, so I figured if it was in native, it would do that. However, it was last fall when I was studying the manual, so I may be mistaken—because back then I had NO clue what this was all about! Now I have one or two, anyway! Thanks for your continued help!

I just got a very large project dropped on me, so I won’t be able to play with VOOM as much for the next few days, plus my antenna upgrade is supposed to happen today, so maybe that will change the PQ issues I’ve seen. (Hope it won’t mean that I have to start over!) Thanks for your continued help!

Vicki

 

[Vicki]

OK, Vicki, I can't take it any longer! I've put together a spreadsheet to try and crack this case, but there are two questions I need answered before I can make any conclusions:

1) Do you wear contact lenses, and if you do, is the prescription different in each eye?
2) Was this month's bill from the winery unusually large? :shocked

Suggested Course of Action: Order up some more wine, kick back and enjoy the WOW! (Either that or watch Monk on USA network, you may have a new hero!)

Cheers!

1. No, not exactly...the prescription in the right and left eyes is the same, but I think the one in my forehead is slightly different, and all three are crossed...which adds to the confusion!

2. Yes, but actually the winery has cut me off because I exceeded my credit card limit. I’ve switched to the hard stuff, and I’m trying to get a new card limit as we speak! @party

I plan to follow your Suggested Course of Action (except Vodka instead of wine—hope that variable doesn’t throw another monkey wrench into the mix!), and I’ll check out Monk—is that short for Monkey??

Vicki

 

[Vicki]

I have seen this about once a week lately. Out of nowhere the STB starts acting goofy and the signal numbers get all whacked out just like you posted here. And the channels get all mixed up too.

I always then know it's time to reboot. After a reboot, all is fine again. When this happens, I can't say that I have ever notice a PQ difference between when the box is acting "goofy" and when it is "normal" again.

Thank God someone else has seen it! I really thought I was going nuts! Sure wish I knew what it stands for and what it does.

Late last night after the first hard reboot, it came back. I then did a soft reboot, and it went away for a while, then came back again. Did another hard reboot, still there, another soft reboot, gone, and so far hasn’t come back today, however, all my SNR numbers are now at 0.00! Picture is about the same, even though a couple of the OTAs show Signal Power of 0, as well! The fun just goes on!

Vicki

 

[Vicki]

Dvlos,

I noticed some ups and downs Sunday afternoon and evening as well, FWIW. I wasn't watching the same programs, but you're in the Sacramento area, too, aren't you? Around 10:15 or so, I lost 3, 10 and 13 on my bedroom set--all at the same time. Was too tired to go back to the family room to check if they were on that box. Don't know if it relates to my need for the anatenna upgrade, problems with the box, or what.

Vicki

 

[Vicki]

This thread is really sad IMO. Amusing too. a spreadsheet on the WOW factor on Voom channels. LMAO. 19 mbps OTA is WOW folks. (voom doesnt have it, no one does on sat i think). Next is HDnet on Dish, 17-18mbps? Voom doesnt have any of that either.

Guess what, MBPS is directly proportional to picture QUALITY and DETAIL! DO you see the pores of peoples skin on all the channels? Voom is running an average of 12mbps, there is no "WOW" except on the very slow moving HDnews channel. The weather maps and hosts are awesome.

The really sad thing is that multicasting is destroying the OTA bitrate and dish is shoving 3 HD channels per transponder. Voom may benefit from the watering down this creates. What a sad state this is

I’m glad you find my posts amusing, because it seems to me you need some humor in your life. :river

If (as it seems to me from many of your posts) you’ve been reduced to nothing but condescension and sarcasm by the lack of MBPS and multicasting (whatever the hell that is) destroying the OTA bitrate, I really feel for you. !sadroll

Personally, I’m new to all this and just trying to understand it enough to set my own personal standards for what I’m currently getting from the current subscriber of my choice. Because there are so many variables, I’m trying to go from a purely subjective opinion to a more objective evaluation. For me, that means, trial and error, monitoring the objective data and comparing it to my subjective impressions, then trying to find the most constant factors in the data. When I can see and understand how the constants correlate, I will be able to more finely tune my opinions, and not get stuck in the “placebo effect” Jerry mentioned. And I don’t deny that Jerry may be right.

Now, I do understand you’re are a Professional Engineer...congratulations. And from some of your posts, I recognize your superior experience and knowledge of this subject.

But IMHO, your energies and formidable knowledge would be better utilized if you were addressing them to people and institutions that just might be able to do something about it. Why bother taking pot shots at people trying just to learn and deal with an existing situation, within the limitations of a major factor they can’t adjust.

Seems to me you’re suffering from what I once heard described as the “connoisseur effect”. But just because a person has once eaten caviar or escargot and felt it was the ultimate, it won’t serve a person well to reject and malign all other foods.

Being one of the great-unwashed masses who don’t know any better, who is just happy with the improvement over analog cable, I doubt my posts will ever hold any compelling information for you.

But…have you noticed there is an option to ignore people on this forum? Perhaps you should add my name to your list. It works—I tried it.

If you would offer some constructive reply to my questions or have some helpful info to pass along to me, I’d appreciate your input of knowledge and experience; but if not, why not just put me on your ignore list, and leave me in my blissful ignorance?

Vicki

 

[TechCop]

In the words of Larry the Cable Guy "Lord, I apologize..."

...for defending Vicki. It is quite obvious she is capable of handling her own defense.

Vurbano, do you need an ambulance, or will a big "ass-sized" band aid do?

Eddie

 

[gutter]

There is no question that Vurbano has strong opinions but his end result is correct and many subscribers who put PQ first recognize it. IMHO this is a forum for debate; Not to shut off criticism. According to Sean, the powers at VOOM do monitor this forum and do respond. We all want VOOM to be successful. And getting constructive criticism is one of them.

Again, I don't agree with Verbano on every point either, especially his preference for 1080I over 720P but that's another story. But I sure like the way he puts a point across and generates discussion. I can learn as well as share.

 

[eschu97611]

...for defending Vicki. It is quite obvious she is capable of handling her own defense.

Vurbano, do you need an ambulance, or will a big "ass-sized" band aid do?

Eddie

Ouch!!!!-LMAO